Kevin Bacon 5 Posted January 21, 2010 Anyone know of kit like this that exists for VR6s? http://yhst-1918367471896.stores.yahoo. ... kimkm.html All it is is a sleeve with a taper in it allowing you to mount the tie rod from underneath, instead of on top! I can only find these kits for MK1/Mk2 platform with small BJs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mimjed 0 Posted January 21, 2010 sadly not, but thats a cracking idea. much easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted January 21, 2010 Of course the other alternative is to drill out the hole in the bearing carrier anyway, and just use a rose joint with the appropriate thread.... but the short life span of rose joints puts me off a bit.... These claim to be among the best quality though - http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/ROD-E ... index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormchargedVR6 0 Posted January 21, 2010 Like this Kev http://scch-heads.com/viewpart.php?id=38 8) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkijayne 0 Posted January 23, 2010 Well that link up top says large ball joints, and anyway I thought all the tie rod ends are the same? They're certainly the same on the mk2, 16V and VR6. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete_griff 0 Posted January 23, 2010 Of course the other alternative is to drill out the hole in the bearing carrier anyway, and just use a rose joint with the appropriate thread.... but the short life span of rose joints puts me off a bit.... These claim to be among the best quality though - http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/ROD-E ... index.html rose joints are great, but they tend to make the steering a bit "crashy" for your everyday road car that has todeal with potholes etc don't they (and not to mention the lifespan as you say). i'm surprised nobody has come up with a kit for this yet though - people have been after this mod for aaaaaaaaaages. is there no hub/running gear setup in the vag range that could be swapped for - that could sort out the ball-joint to disc clearance issue too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted January 25, 2010 Like this Kev http://scch-heads.com/viewpart.php?id=38 8) Exactly like that mate, good find 8) Well that link up top says large ball joints, and anyway I thought all the tie rod ends are the same? They're certainly the same on the mk2, 16V and VR6. It's been 8 or 9 years since owning a MK2, so my memory could be faded in this area, but I'm pretty sure the VR6 has bigger tie rod ends than the MK2 platform. It would be nice and a lot easier if they were all the same size, but every 2.9 into MK2 conversion I've seen, which takes the Corrado steering rack with it, has to use the MK2 tie rods. rose joints are great, but they tend to make the steering a bit "crashy" for your everyday road car that has todeal with potholes etc don't they (and not to mention the lifespan as you say). i'm surprised nobody has come up with a kit for this yet though - people have been after this mod for aaaaaaaaaages. is there no hub/running gear setup in the vag range that could be swapped for - that could sort out the ball-joint to disc clearance issue too... I'm not sure it would increase crashiness tbh mate. I had solid top mounts on for a while as you know and they don't increase harshness or vibration at all. It's just the lifespan of the bearings which is a pain. I did look into other VAG cars for bits like that, such as offset ball joints to increase positive caster, which some VAG cars had etc, but as is usually the case, I can't find the time or hit an information dead end! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkijayne 0 Posted January 26, 2010 It's been 8 or 9 years since owning a MK2, so my memory could be faded in this area, but I'm pretty sure the VR6 has bigger tie rod ends than the MK2 platform. It would be nice and a lot easier if they were all the same size, but every 2.9 into MK2 conversion I've seen, which takes the Corrado steering rack with it, has to use the MK2 tie rods. Hmm you've got me wondering now. I've been playing with mk2, 16V and VR6 hubs on the V8 and not noticed any difference. I shall have to compare them tomorrow :cat: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GVK 0 Posted January 27, 2010 mk2 1991 and Corrado 1994 both use M12x1.5 track rod end nut [tre to hub carrier], so must be the same size? Pretty sure the mk2 (with PAS) and Corrado use the same thread track rod. (tie rod) edit -Just had a look and they are both M14.[thread size on tie rod for tre] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 27, 2010 Yeah track rod ends are all the same - obviouly the length of the rod just differs between base and plus suspension. Been wanting to do this for a while Kev and have some spare 4cyl Hubs - just hope it's not another one of these aftermarket upgrades that lasts no time at all due to crap parts quality - rose joint won't last, needs to be a proper booted ball joint in that location, even pattern TRE's don't last becuase of badly sealing boots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 27, 2010 Here's the thread I started a while back.... really ought to get round to this, makes so much sense! viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72747 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted January 27, 2010 If the tie rod ends are all the same size then, happy days :D I'll get one of those black forest kits ordered! EDIT: Looking at the other thread, I think it's the size of the lower ball joints I'm getting confused about. The VR's are bigger aren't they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 27, 2010 Yeah the bottom ball joint design changes radically between base and plus... Base uses a pinch bolt to hold it in the hub/bearing carrier but the VR6 uses a nut on the end of the BJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkijayne 0 Posted January 27, 2010 EDIT: Looking at the other thread, I think it's the size of the lower ball joints I'm getting confused about. The VR's are bigger aren't they? The lower ball joints do change in '85 from 17 to 19mm, but yes the VR6's are completely different. I really can't think of a simple way of extending those like you can with the pinch-bolt type, short of welding something to them :? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted January 27, 2010 Cheers guys. I might just get the ones from this site then as it's easier / quicker than importing from the states - http://www.vwheritage.com/ssp/Steering/?templateID=ssp Yeah it is a shame about the lower BJ extender not being doable on the VR platform. I suppose you could make a spacer where the 3 bolts attach the BJ to the wishbone? I.e. make say a 20mm thick spacer, bolt that to the wishbone, and then bolt the BJ to that. It works in my head, but probably wouldn't in practice :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkijayne 0 Posted January 27, 2010 Yeah it is a shame about the lower BJ extender not being doable on the VR platform. I suppose you could make a spacer where the 3 bolts attach the BJ to the wishbone? I.e. make say a 20mm thick spacer, bolt that to the wishbone, and then bolt the BJ to that. It works in my head, but probably wouldn't in practice :lol: Unfortunately that wouldn't do anything at all, since the ball itself would still be in the same place relative to the inner wishbone mounts. The drop kits are designed to move the outer pivot point to level, or ideally below, the inner pivot, so that under compression the hub moves out ever so slightly to give negative camber. This is a compromise between bump steer and keeping the wheel vertical as the body rolls in a corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 27, 2010 Tempted to order that kit for £20 as i've been meaning to do this for a while... I assume the Beetle ones fit the 12mm Corrado TRE's ok? How easy will it be to drill the hub carriers - cast iron aren't they? tough and also brittle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 29, 2010 Right, the other night I ordered 2 pairs of these - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0436722922 They arrived today and I can confirm they are the right size and look like they will fit perfectly. I mailed the guy to say they were for a Corrado as he does 2 different sizes and he knew which ones to send - he also said he is the supplier to VW Heritage etc! Going to look at getting my spare hubs drilled next month - will probably buy a pair of wheel bearing kits as you get all the bolts / nuts etc needed so makes sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkijayne 0 Posted January 29, 2010 Ooo good stuff :) Is there anyone in the UK that sells the balljoint extenders or are they still US only? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 29, 2010 Hey - well I've been looking but can't find anyone cheap or UK based... Still trying to get my head round what the LBJ extenders will do, I know it makes sense to do them with the track rods to get the geometry back to where it's meant to be but what difference will it make on the road having the wishbones pointing down rather than parallel? Any thoughts about drilling the hub carriers? - might try my local engineering place next week... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 29, 2010 Sorry - just read this again and I think I get it... I assume the biggest bump steer cause is the track rod angle though as these connect directly to the rack? Unfortunately that wouldn't do anything at all, since the ball itself would still be in the same place relative to the inner wishbone mounts. The drop kits are designed to move the outer pivot point to level, or ideally below, the inner pivot, so that under compression the hub moves out ever so slightly to give negative camber. This is a compromise between bump steer and keeping the wheel vertical as the body rolls in a corner. Do we also need to swap TRE's from Right to Left or am I talking bollocks? :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkijayne 0 Posted January 29, 2010 Well on a stock car the wishbones point down. The idea behind that is that under compression as the wishbones move upwards the outer ball joint moves outward (in an arc). This moves the whole hub out, only by a tiny bit, but an important bit because that causes more negative camber at the wheel. This is to try and keep the wheel vertical as the body is rolling in to the corner. If you have the wishbone pointing up at rest then under compression the wheel gets positive camber which is bad for grip ;) The ideal solution to lower the car and still handle is therefore to raise the hub up compared to where it is stock, but keep the tie rod and wishbone as they were. That way you keep the factory handling characteristics, but with a lower ride height. Edit - yes in theory we should also be swapping the TREs from side to side to keep the stock geometry, but oddly I've never seen mention of that before. I'm not actually sure why they have that kink in them, and why they wouldn't just be straight. I'll try and find out... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 29, 2010 Perfectly explained - thanks for that, I understand it now... 8) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted January 29, 2010 Edit - yes in theory we should also be swapping the TREs from side to side to keep the stock geometry, but oddly I've never seen mention of that before. I'm not actually sure why they have that kink in them, and why they wouldn't just be straight. I'll try and find out... Was thinking it must be clearance of some sort but not sure... or maybe to make them stronger in the event of a bump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matty.vrt 0 Posted January 29, 2010 This might sound a bit daft but what is stopping you flipping your tie rods without a kit ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
