VR6 Dropped Spindles/hub

[quicky1980 0]

Are there any suppliers/manufacturers that make dropped spindles for the vr6 hubs? I've seen them for other vehicles inc the air cooled beetles.

 

If not, Ive heard that there may be a company that could make them to spec if the volumes are good enough. anyone know who this could be? :scratch:

[dark.ryder 10]

No point. Coil overs do the same thing. Air-cooled suspension is totally different being that it is torsion leaf spring rather than mcthurson strut. The Corrado hub, you can dial in with a coil over. Being front wheel drive the strut bottom would also stop the spindle being able to go any higher as it would clash with the c.v. drive shaft. The rear is a totally different ball game it would be so easy to raise the rear as much as you like with a decent welder and a piece of 10mm plate.

Edited October 19, 2011 by dark.ryder

[quicky1980 0]

not quite dark.ryder, when you lower cars you affect the geometry and hence why people use ball joint extenders (check out google), unfortunately the vr6 cant accommodate the same part so another option is to change the position of the spindle (or bearing housing in the vr6 setup) so it drops the car height but returns the wishbone, track rods etc back to where they should be. hope that makes sense, if not there are other threads about suspension geometry discussing this issue.

[mikkijayne 0]

I believe either TT or R32 has the bearing higher up in the hub compared to stock ones to lower the car without changing the geometry. I've seen a picture of them on Vortex somewhere...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Finally found the company who make the MK4 'dropped' hubs - http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=203

 

They were supposed to be working on the MK3 platform as well but I've not heard anything since last year. I might email them.

 

Can these MK4 hubs not be made to fit a Corrado though?

[dark.ryder 10]

Are the wishbones not pressed steel (not cast) If you can or know someone that can weld and i mean really weld why not just shorten the wishbones to pull the geometry back in? Thats what i used to do on my mk1 golfs.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Kev, the MK4 hubs are far too "tall" unfortunately. Would be very very very interested if H2 Sport do some....

 

Jay

[quicky1980 0]

i remember a forum member fitting the mk4 setup to the rado but it shifted the wheel backwards. Seemed to work but didnt look right. Kev, I'll give them a ping too, maybe we can kick this off as a group buy. Im sure there would be plenty of non corrado, vr6 users wanting to sort out their suspension properly.

 

Dark Rider, not sure if Ive understood your suggest correctly but shortening the wishbones wouldnt resolve the issue, just helps with camber. If the mount where the ball joint attatches to the hub was to be cut and extented down, that would do the job but not a very neat nor a safety option.

[mikkijayne 0]

Finally found the company who make the MK4 'dropped' hubs - http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=203

 

 

So they cut off the lower balljoint mount and weld it back on lower then. A friend of mine made some mk2 hubs like this a few years ago. Not difficult to do if you can weld properly ;)

[quicky1980 0]

I think H2 make a new cast version, I dont like the idea of the cut and shut method. I'm looking for a neat solution.

[boost monkey 0]

Is this along the same lines as the BJEs or am I getting confused?

 

Sam why do you say the VR6 ones can't be made? IIRC Jay and I were talking about it. It's a very simple machining jobby really.

[quicky1980 0]

Yes, same lines as BJE. Jay had started a thread to find a BJE for VR6 hub's but it drew a dead end (well the thread did anyway http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?58430-Lower-Ball-Joint-Extension-Re-positioning) this thread is an investigation into the hubs themselfs.

 

From what I'm understanding, there are no BJE for the VR6 ball joints and due the the BJ design, one cant be made is a safe manner. These ...[ATTACH=CONFIG]49767[/ATTACH]

 

..wont work on a VR6 setup.

 

If you know otherwise, Im very keen to know. Otherwise a recast hub, or a cut/shut hub are the only other options aware to me.

 

Quick question, will a non vr6 ball joint fit a vr6 wishbone? If so. maybe a modified version of the non vr6 BJE could be manufactured to transition from the non vr6 BJ to the VR6 hub.

[24V Renshaw 0]

I looked at that exact idea Sam, but the Non-VR6 BJ is 90 degrees to the wishbone, where as the VR6 BJ is about 45/50 degrees to the wishbone. Sort of back on its self if that makes sense.

So any extender would need to allow for that and if I am honest I ran out of time trying to work out the geometry and any affect it would have....

 

Jay

[boost monkey 0]

I'm more than happy to CAD up some VR6 BJE's. I hadn't realised that thread had tumbleweeded; I was awaiting for someone who is handy with a vernier caliper and had all the correct bits to give me some dimensions! It really woudn't take too long to model, and I could throw it at a local rapid prototyping very easily. WOuld only be a few days turnaround :D

 

If anyone has a spare LBJ and hub they can lend me I'd be happy to do it myself, I just don't have the cashola at the mo to outlay for this if there really isn't Group-Buy levels of interest.

 

Anyways, sorry for the hijack.

 

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 PM ----------

 

From what I'm understanding...due the the BJ design, one cant be made is a safe manner.

 

I would be surprised if this is the case. But that being said I have never seen a VR6 hub or LBJ so I've got nothing to base this on. Sounds intriguing!

[24V Renshaw 0]

How about an iges file of a 3D scan of the ball joint, would that do you? :D

 

Jay

[quicky1980 0]

while looking up some images to compare vr6 and non vr6 bj's I came across this, the two crude paint shop images are similar to the ideas I was mulling over. Not sure if it's because it's the end of the week and Im tired but the thread basically said that both ideas are poo poo. But wouldnt that also mean that the BJE are of no use? Im confused and tired, someone clarify please ..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4420432-VR6-Ball-joint-control-arm-angle-discussion...

[mikkijayne 0]

I would be surprised if this is the case. But that being said I have never seen a VR6 hub or LBJ so I've got nothing to base this on. Sounds intriguing!

 

When you see it you will realise that it is not feasible to do in the same fashion as the non-VR6 ones. Because it is at an angle if you extend it you will completely change the geometry and also move the hub inboard.

 

while looking up some images to compare vr6 and non vr6 bj's I came across this, the two crude paint shop images are similar to the ideas I was mulling over. Not sure if it's because it's the end of the week and Im tired but the thread basically said that both ideas are poo poo. But wouldnt that also mean that the BJE are of no use? Im confused and tired, someone clarify please ..

 

Neither of those would work. The first one as it doesn't move the ball joint, only the wishbone, and thats not the problem. You need to move the balljoint relative to the wheel bearing. BJEs do exactly that by putting distance between the ball and the bottom of the hub. The second one is close, but it would push the hub inboard as above.

 

The only way I can think of to do this would be to create a spacer piece which would allow you to fit a G60 balljoint to a VR6 hub, but it would be a hellacious thing to machine, and likely difficult to make strong enough. You could keep the geometry right like that though.

 

For Boost Monkey:

 

Edited October 21, 2011 by mikkijayne

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I emailed H2sport today and then found a thread on the Vortex shortly after where H2Sport said production will be starting soon on MK3 drop spindles. That was in 2005 :lol:

 

I'll let you know what they come back with.

[Jim Bowen 1]

run standard ride height and just weld a bit of extra arch on to lower it? :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well that's certainly an option, if a LOT more expensive! :D

 

There are benefits to going lower, mainly from dropping the C of G, but too low is where all the problems start. The trouble with the Corrado is the wishbones are only just lower than parallel with the 4x4 ride height. You've only go to drop it an inch and you've already compromised the geometry in the way MikkiJayne has explained. Most Rado owners are more like -50 to 60mm in reality and the lovely camber is replaced with nasty bump steer.

 

If you look at the R32 or any high performance VW, the front wishbones are still parallel, but the hubs have been redesigned to restore the correct geometry. So it's low and handles. A win win situation :D Now what I am envious of is how they manage to run stupidly heavy 18 and 19" wheels and still give a great ride quality!

[boost monkey 0]

How about an iges file of a 3D scan of the ball joint, would that do you? :D

 

Jay

 

Perfect fella! been working with IGES data a lot at work recently. I'll get it mocked up into 3D and go from there :D

 

sorry for the delay in seeing this.

 

---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------

 

When you see it you will realise that it is not feasible to do in the same fashion as the non-VR6 ones. Because it is at an angle if you extend it you will completely change the geometry and also move the hub inboard.

 

For Boost Monkey:

 

 

Cheers MJ, that's really helpful :-) I understand that they can't be modded in the same way as a 4pot. But they can still be made to work. The extenders will just have to compensate for the fact that the hub will want to move inboard. I'm sure it can be done. I've done a couple of suspension design projects so far - one at uni and one in industry so I'm happy to play with it! We're not going to lose anything by just checking the geometry over the arc that the wishbone travels and knocking up some cad stuff.

 

I'm quietly confident we can get something to work.

[boost monkey 0]

Jay has sent me some CAD data but can't get it open at the mo :-s once we figure it out i'll knock up a model and throw it up here.

 

Then all that's left is the hub...!

 

Edit: sorry all, first time i downloaded CAD file it stopped at about 15% without me realising! Hence not opening. Feel like an arse. Got it working now.

 

Will post some stuff up here when I can.

Edited October 28, 2011 by boost monkey

[Kevin Bacon 5]

We're all rooting for ya Boost Chunky :D

[24V Renshaw 0]

Glad you got it open in the end mate, should have warned you it was a 10Mb file. :)

 

Looking forward to seeing what you get modelled up. I simply don't have time.

 

Jay

[boost monkey 0]

Hi team,

 

well I managed to get the 3D scan dumped into CAD. there's some holes(!) in the model. Looks like a torn rubber boot actually! LOL. But this is what I've made from it so far.

 

@Jay, was it an old LBJ that was scanned by your mate? The screw thread at the top looks a bit worse for wear as does the allan key hole? Shouldn't matter really, I'll have a tinker this weekend with it.

 

The pics: