G60 exhaust manifold studs... tapping out broken bolts???

[TajMan 0]

My G60 had a bad exhaust leak at the manifold and I finally got around the fixing it. I got the downpipe and exhaust manifold off now and here's my problem. Of the eight exhaust manifold studs, four are broken/missing!!! Three were already gone when I started taking it off, and one stud sheared off when I removed it. I need to somehow tap out possibly four stud and install new ones and I don't know if it can be done with the engine/head in the car. Anybody know, what should I use? The whole thing may be rusted a little too. BTW does it have an alluminum head or is it steel? Am I screwed or what?

[andycowuk 0]

exactly the same thing happened to me when I was putting my s/s header on. :mad: If there is any of the stud sticking out of the head you might be able to get it out in situ, but otherwise you will need to bore a hole in the stud, so you can turn it.

 

I had to take mine off, and I send it away to be ported and polished while I was there, but if you dont want that done, then a local machine shop can certainly remove them if you cant yourself......you will need a pillar drill to stop the drill slipping of the steel stud, into the nice soft aluminium head!!!

 

One good thing about taking the head off......you can put the two manifolds back on when the head is on the floor....tell me you are looking forward to putting all those bits back together again as is? :x

[TajMan 0]

How do you get the exhaust manifold out of the car? I have it unbolted but I can't get it through the hole that I got the downpipe out of, there's too many frame/suspension components in the way. Can you get it out without taking the intake manifold off and bringing it up out the top? Do you think any shop would be able to tap the bolts out while the head/engine is still in the car?

[andycowuk 0]

you must have 3 elbow and 2 wrists on each arm....I took my inet manifold off.

[TajMan 0]

I took it to a shop to get the bolts tapped out. They can't do it with the head in the car. They quoted $600 to remove the head, tap the bolts out, and reinstall it.

 

I've got two options, remove the head and do it myself, or just put the exhaust manifold back on and sell the car as-is with an exhaust leak. I guess three options, i could part the car out too. I'm just trying make my money back that I've put into this thing. What do you guys think would be best financially out of those options?

 

How hard is it to remove the head on these cars? How much is a headgasket and any other gaskets, etc. that I will need?

[andycowuk 0]

how hard it is to remove the head depends partly on what you have aleady sripped off. The worst part is reomving the fuel rail, injectors and manifolds from the head. It dosnt take much more than an afternoon to put back together either. Gaskets and head bolts dont cost much more than £60 IIRC.

 

let us know your plan....will try to help out!

[Henny 0]

How hard is it to remove the head on these cars? How much is a headgasket and any other gaskets, etc. that I will need?

 

Oh, you timed that nicely... Look what I wrote the other night... :D 8)

 

CLICK HERE!

 

I have no idea what labour rates are like in the states, but $600 (£300) sounds a bit heavy to me... :?

 

You should be able to get the head off from a complete engine in under 3 hours if you've never done it before... A decent machine shop should then be able to get the snapped studs out for either a few beers or a small amount of cash 'cos it's not difficult or time consuming to do if you've got the right tools, then putting it all back together should easily be under 3 hours... 8)

 

Make sure you replace the head bolts (NEVER re-use them!) and get a decent METAL headgasket (preferably genuine VW)... The complete headset costs around £60 here, and I can't see it being that much more over there... 8)

 

Good luck! 8)

[TajMan 0]

Yeah I just ordered a complete head set for $90.

 

Uh, how bad is driving the car with the exhaust manifold completely off? I've never heard exhaust so loud in my life, it was bad. About half way to the shop I realy started feeling uneasy about it. The car had no power and it started running really bad, I assume because the o2 sensor wasn't reading the exhaust. I think I'll just tow it back from the shop.

[Henny 0]

I'm suprised you can hear at all! That's gotta be loud!

 

The only thing that you may have done is heated up the fuel pipes/inlet manifold too much...

 

I'd say towing it back would be a really good idea! ;)

[TajMan 0]

Well I've got the car back at home and I have a new headgasket, head bolts, exhaust gaskets, and intake manifold gasket. Gonna start tearin into it. Hopefully all goes at least moderately smooth. :roll:

[Henny 0]

take your time, and tighten the head bolts as recommended by VW ... Go easy, nice and smooth when you're putting the final 2x90 degree turns on the bolts, and you should be fine... 8)

[TajMan 0]

What are the torque specs (ft-lbs) of the head bolts? I can't find any repair manuals or specs here.

 

How long of a job is it for a first timer on these cars? I did a head gasket on a '87 CRX and between the gasket being REALLY blown and stuck on and some broken exhaust manifold bolts as well I ended up spending practly six days doing it. Is this one going to be faster or slower?

 

Oh yeah I have to go buy the right tool for those head bolts. I never have the right tools for these dang VW's, I do everything by hand with those little allen wrenches. :lol:

[Henny 0]

I'll post 'em up when I get home if no-one has beaten me too it... 8)

[TajMan 0]

I'll post 'em up when I get home if no-one has beaten me too it... 8)

 

Mind posting those specs?

[Henny 0]

Oops, I forgot about this thread! Sorry.... :oops:

 

Here ya go... 8)

 

Tightening torque: engine cold

 

tighten in sequence to 40 Nm (29 ft lb)

 

tighten in sequence to 60 Nm (43 ft lb)

 

tighten in sequence additional 1/2 turn (180) further in one movement (two 90 turns are permissible)

 

remove cylinder head bolts in reverse sequence

 

 

Hope this helps... 8)

[TajMan 0]

Hey thanks for those torque specs. I've almost got the head out, wasn't a bad job at all. I just need to find TDC. I couldn't find any marks to line up or anything, any help?

[Henny 0]

wow! this is freaky timing! Have a look at the FIRE thread that I linked to above for the head removal... I've just posted a diagram there on how to time up an engine! 8) :lol:

[TajMan 0]

The head is out! All in all I think the engine looks pretty good, what do you guys think?

 

Try copying and pasting the picture links into another browser window, sorry imagestation sucks.

 

Is it normal to see some "oil stains" or places where the oil is kind of baked on under the valve cover?

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... g.orig.jpg

 

Here you can see the four broken exhaust manifold bolts. You can also see where the gaskets were missing and the exhaust was badly leaking.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... g.orig.jpg

 

You can still see the factory crosshatch on the cylinder walls! (Head gasket still on in that pic.)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... g.orig.jpg

 

I broke the supercharger steel braided oil line during removal. I just bent it a little and it snapped inside. I also need a new valve cover gasket, don't have one of those and mine broke. There are lots of cloth braided vaccume lines that look pretty bad, I'll try to replace all of those too. I just bought a new timing belt and serpentine belt for it as well, the ones in there are pretty bad.

 

*edit*

 

I just dropped the head off at the machine shop. They are going to completely disassemble and clean everything, new valve guides, new valve grinds and resurfacing of the head, tap out four broken exhaust studs (one of them actually has to have a hole "electricly burned" into it and removed because it has a broken ez-out in it from the mechanic I dropped it off at before), and they'll install 8 new exhaust studs. They're also getting me a valve cover gasket that I need, all the other gaskets to put it back together I already have (Well... except for those rubber o-ring gaskets for the two plastic waternecks attatched to the block, where can I get those?). Total cost at the machine shop will be $360 USD.

 

BTW are these non-interferance engines?

 

Looks like head will be at machine shop for a week and in the meantime I will swap out the damaged dashboard with a new one I got. After the head goes back it looks like I'll be almost ready to sell.

 

If anyone is interested its a black '90 G60 with 150K miles, freshly rebuilt supercharger, rebuilt head, tons of new gaskets / hoses / belts, new dash & CD player, in Utah, USA -- looking for about $3,000 USD :wink:

 

*mod edit - I've edited the photos and hosted 'em here too so people are more likely to see them... - Henny*

[Henny 0]

The head is out! All in all I think the engine looks pretty good, what do you guys think?

How much of a lip is there at the top of the cylinders? in those photos it looks quite big, but that could just be the angle the photo is taken from.... Other than that, it looks OK... 8)

Try copying and pasting the picture links into another browser window, sorry imagestation sucks.

yes, it does! :roll: Images are now added onto the end of your post, resized and hosted here for ease... ;)

Is it normal to see some "oil stains" or places where the oil is kind of baked on under the valve cover?

yup... it gets a little warm in there which cooks a thin coat of the oil on... ;) Nothing to worry about there... 8)

I broke the supercharger steel braided oil line during removal. I just bent it a little and it snapped inside. I also need a new valve cover gasket, don't have one of those and mine broke.

These should be replaced anyway as the gasket will have been squashed when fitted and shouldn't really be used again, and the oil pipe is probably the original so would have needed replacing to make sure it never broke while the engine was running...

There are lots of cloth braided vaccume lines that look pretty bad, I'll try to replace all of those too.

The one from the back of the throttle body to the ECU needs to be EXACTLY 1meter long (39" IIRC...) If it's not, your car will drive like a dog... :?

I just bought a new timing belt and serpentine belt for it as well, the ones in there are pretty bad.

Don't forget to change the cam belt (timing belt to you) tensioner too! They're cheap, but make a REAL mess if they ever seize up! :shock:

I just dropped the head off at the machine shop. They are going to completely disassemble and clean everything, new valve guides, new valve grinds and resurfacing of the head, tap out four broken exhaust studs (one of them actually has to have a hole "electricly burned" into it and removed because it has a broken ez-out in it from the mechanic I dropped it off at before), and they'll install 8 new exhaust studs. They're also getting me a valve cover gasket that I need, all the other gaskets to put it back together I already have (Well... except for those rubber o-ring gaskets for the two plastic waternecks attatched to the block, where can I get those?). Total cost at the machine shop will be $360 USD.

Sounds like a good job, at a reasonable cost too! 8) The rubber O rings will be best bought from your local VW dealer's parts depot... they should be readily available and cost only a few cents as they are used on LOTS of VW engines... 8)

BTW are these non-interferance engines?

Nope, they ARE interference engines... The pistons WILL hit the valves if the engine is turned over without the cam turning... :? Trust me, I know this thru experience... :roll:

 

Hope this lot helps and that you get your car running properly again soon... 8)

[TajMan 0]

Thanks Henny, that was very helpful!

 

How much lip is there supposed to be at the top of the cylinder walls? It did look kind of big to me. How far down from the top of the piston are the rings in this car? What causes it to be bigger?

 

Yeah you already helped me with that 39 inch long hose, replaced it and it made a big difference. Do any other vacuum hoses cause dramitic performance problems if broken?

 

I'll get a new tensioner for the timing belt, but I also noticed something else. The back side of the serpentine belt is worn at an angle on one side and there are bumps on the two idler pulley's that touch the back side of the belt, feels like melted on plastic/rubber. I'm going to have to sand those idler pulleys or something to keep them from wearnig on the back side of the belt again. I wonder if something else is wearing it somehow.

[psykokid 0]

you can get the water neck from the dealer or you can get it from mike potter and company at http://www.parts4vws.com. It will come with all the o-rings and everything if you get it from them. Mikes a good guy to deal with and knows his stuff well (used to run the parts department at a dealership for quite sometime)

[TajMan 0]

So Henny what about that lip on the top of the cylinders?

 

Here's what I did to it today. Oh swapping dashboards is so much fun. :roll:

 

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http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... g.orig.jpg

 

*mod edit - Pics added and thumbnailed for you - Henny*

[Henny 0]

I don't know much about the tollerances on these engines, I sent mine off to get the block rebuilt and overbored 'cos I haven't got either the tools or the experience to sort it out...

 

All I know is that there shouldn't be a lip at the top of the cylinders, and any lip that is there is caused by wear on the cylinders which could cause piston slap and oil burning to happen... :?

[TajMan 0]

Got the head back from the machine shop! Check it out it looks awesome.

 

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http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... g.orig.jpg

 

(I've tried attatching pics but its never worked.)

[TajMan 0]

What do you use to tension the timing belt? The tensioneer pulley has two holes in it, it looks like you need a special tool to hold it tight while you tighten the bolt. I've almost got it back together guys, just need a little more help.