home spraying , help and info

[sexybourbon 0]

Im after some good info , links and you tube vids before i go ahead with my own ,

Before anyone says get it done profesionally i do have a compressor with an inline water trap and i plan to make a makeshift booth with heaters and hopefully some extraction

What i could do with is some info on steps through sanding and preping and what grades to start on and finish on before priming , how to get the car nice and flat before colour , what paint types to go for , cellulose,water based , 2k

And also info on laquering and finally machine polishing .anything paint related really so i can pik up as much as possible .

I have sprayed before and with good outcome

But id like to get this as good as i possibly can so if any home sprayers have a bit of time id like to learn.

As said at the start money is tight saving for a house so proffesional help is a no go , the cars front end is stone chipped to hell and some collosal prick has keyed one side , also although the car looks good there are imperfections on most panels so i cant really loose inles i do a shocking job

I dont want it perfect but i think i can get it looking better than it is at the moment do any info or links would be great especially vidios and how to's

Cheers in advance

[GlosterOx 0]

I have a brand new (apart from one trial to make sure it worked) DeVilbiss HVLP Spray Gun + spares collecting dust on top of my wardrobe if you want to invest in some good equipment?

 

Ian.

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

with the time and dedication not to give up if something goes wrong you can get the same results as a pro, you just need to work harder after paint to remove dust nibs from the clear, what colours your car?

 

i'll recomend you u-pol system 20 for 2k primer and 2kclear as there hardner can be used with both,

only use a 2k primer as it wont react with the solvents in the paint you put on top,

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2K-PRIMER-CAR-PAINT-U-Pol-High-Build-Beige-1-33lt-kit-/390025288140?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item5acf5199cc

 

you want the primer colour as close to your car colour as possible,

2k clear , but dont buy the 5L tin as you wont need that much , they do them in 1L tins aswell for like £15.00

 

mixing any paint you want to use the clear plastic mixing cups which have the ratios written on the side so theres no guess work , i.e for a 3:1 ratio you pure your paint up to the 3: mark and then pure your harnder up to the 1: mark job done!, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PACK-50-CALIBRATED-600CC-POLYTHENE-MIXING-CUPS-/360482372435?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item53ee6c7b53

,

 

then once your paint is mixed and stirred in the cup you use a strainer to filter out anything that might be in the paint useing these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paper-paint-filters-strainers-125-microm-UltraFine-x50-/110742772127?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item19c8c8999f by putting the strainer directly over the paint pot on the gun

 

heres the important bit! dont skimp out on a mask! you want this with organic vapour filters which are brought seperate,

in a proper paint booth the vapours are filtered out fast! in a diy enviroment its very dangerous! so your deffo going to need fan extraction of some sort along with the correct mask,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-6000-Series-Full-Face-Mask-Respirator-6800-Medium-/251137285412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a78f2dd24

its realy not worth the hassel of having breathing problems or possibly worse death by asfixiation,

the paint vapours can cause a gel coating over the lungs, wont happen same day and basicly it will stop your lungs from absorbing oxygen so your get asthma like symptoms but your be able to breath full lung capacity so its not like asthma

Edited September 3, 2012 by VW_OwneR_85

[craigowl 0]

Life's too short.- Just my view.

[sexybourbon 0]

Cheers for the info theres some good links there and the mask looks great ill deffo be wearing one as im not a fan of being dead ,

I wasnt to sure weather using 2k was the way to go but then again im not that clued up so apart from 2k being a harder paint wats the difference between them and say cellulose ? Also will i need the cellulose for 2k ?? And would it be sensible to get the anti bloom thinners ??

The cars dragon green so im hoping its not going to be to hard to get a match on parts that might not need doing

The front bumper is by far the worst bit on the car and was thinking of having a practise run on that first before attempting any more of the car wich i think is a sensible idea

also i do already have a devilbiss gun but how much was you thinking ox ? Like i say money is tight so what i have will probably do but theres no harm in asking lol

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

when doing sanding to get your work straight , like filler's and sanding primer before colour use a guide coat,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U-pol-S2004-Dry-Guide-Coat-Aerosol-450ml-UPOL-/110655893356?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item19c39aef6c

 

you want no sanding sratchs harsher then 600 grit on your primer before colour, otherwise they will show through,

 

heres an example of useing a guide coat, it reveals all the low spots which need to be worked out,

 

bonnet primed and then lightly sprayed with a guide coat ready for sanding out imperfections like orange peel,

halfway done

you can see low spots around the left windscreen nozzle hole,

 

your also need this stuff to keep your work clean http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5L-Can-Tetrosyl-Panel-Wipe-Pre-Paint-Wipe-Surface-Prep-/360484981272?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item53ee944a18

 

your want solvent basecoat mixed to your code, like this stuff

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2L-Solvent-Basecoat-Paint-BMW-317-ORIENT-BLUE-/300550651710?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item45fa36ff3e

 

cellulose is old news and thats the same stuff thats in spray cans, iv heard waterbased isnt ideal for diy use,

think its got something to do with needing a temperature controlled enviroment,

also a moisture trap isnt enough to stop oil + water from passing through your gun, cant find the link but devilbliss make a filter which skrews straight on to the 1/4 male thread on the gun, deffo worth buying!!,

theres so much more info but you just got to learn as you go , learn on a scrap panel first and try your best!

another reason to use a 2k primer , it basicly insures all your hard prep work, all the prep work is from the primer and whats under the primer , basicly solvents cant attack 2k { 2k = 2 componant} so if you make any mistake applying your basecoat , like you get crazy runs or loads of dust falls into or like me i had contamination from oil from the compressor , you can just wipe the basecoat away with thinners even if its dry , so you can start again fresh from your preped primed surface :)

[sexybourbon 0]

Life's too short.- Just my view.

 

To learn a new skill ? I assume you mean to build your own booth and possibly die breathing in toxic vapours , im a bit confused

[GlosterOx 0]

Would be looking for £100 delivered, but happy to throw in some mixing cups and paint strainers if it would help?

 

Ian.

[sexybourbon 0]

Cheers owner85 thats some real good info there , the info on finding spots in the paint and how to rectify them is exactly what i need to learn and also i never knew that using a 2k primer was that benificial , ie that you can basicaly start over if you make a mistake without to much fuss

I do remember visiting a welding forum a while back that had some good info about paint and body work but i cant remember the name of it for my life

 

---------- Post added at 9:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 9:14 PM ----------

 

Would be looking for £100 delivered, but happy to throw in some mixing cups and paint strainers if it would help?

 

Ian.

 

Thanks for the offer ox but its a bit out of my range when i already have one sat in the garage , would be nice to have all new equipment but at the mo thats not gonna happen , cheers tho bud

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

Cheers for the info theres some good links there and the mask looks great ill deffo be wearing one as im not a fan of being dead ,

I wasnt to sure weather using 2k was the way to go but then again im not that clued up so apart from 2k being a harder paint wats the difference between them and say cellulose ? Also will i need the cellulose for 2k ?? And would it be sensible to get the anti bloom thinners ??

The cars dragon green so im hoping its not going to be to hard to get a match on parts that might not need doing

The front bumper is by far the worst bit on the car and was thinking of having a practise run on that first before attempting any more of the car wich i think is a sensible idea

also i do already have a devilbiss gun but how much was you thinking ox ? Like i say money is tight so what i have will probably do but theres no harm in asking lol

 

basiclay 1k is 1 componant meaning theres only one part to it, cellulose paint is 1k as its just the paint and doesnt need a harnder for it to set, its not the stuff you want, 2k is 2 componant so theres 2 parts to it and yea its benefits are harder wearing also the 2k clear coats dont get affected by U.V raise either so no colour fade and doesnt get affected by solvents, once a 2k paint is hardend you could wipe it or drown it in thinners and it wont affect it unlike a 1k paint which will melt away.

yea 2k primer and 2k clear is deffo the way to go!. solvent base {your colour coat} is 1k and deosnt require a hardner,

it just needs to be thinned down useing the correct thinner to a ratio of 1:1 , this paint method , {2stage} will be what the body shop would use on your car, 2stage because it requires 2 , 1st stage = basecoat, 2nd stage= clearcoat. A.K.A clear over base,

 

there is a single stage system but you dont want that as you want to match your old paint,

basicly single stage is 1stage and thats a 2k colour coat which doesnt need a clear for its gloss {hence 1stage} , but will fade over time and its not available in a wide range of paint codes, think its just solid colours so not suitable for modern cars,

 

basicly forget cellulose altogether its just a different type of paint, you could put a 2k clear on top of celly and get a good looking gloss finish but you want solvent basecoat not celly..

 

your bumper sounds like a good starting point, start off by giveing it a blady good wash down with hot soapy water and then once its all clean you can start sanding back all the imperfections like lacqour peel etc , use filler if needed and then sand back with the help of the guide coat and then seal it all down with the 2k primer and leave 24hours for it to set and cure fully before guide coating the bumper and then you can start to sand that back start with something like 320 and then move up to finish with 600 grit paper untill your happy, if theres areas your not happy with , fill and reprime if needed! , remeber to use a nice flat sanding block and sand useing an X pattern so you go with the contours/curves of the bumper, once your happy that the primers done, give it a wash down, let it fully dry!! and then use panel wipe , let that flash off {solvents evaporate} and then your ready for basecoat, apply your basecoat, your want 50% overlaps , meaning if you spary a line your next pass should overlap that line by 50% ,

{ just search you tube for paint gun technique}

give each coat 15minutes to flash off before adding another coat, add enough coats untill your colour is acheived, then add clear coat after 45mins but no longer then 24hours, if you make mistakes in your basecoat fix them before adding the clear, just wait for base to dry and sand out imperfection and blow over the sanded area with base again, or if your mistake is prety bad just wipe the basecoat all away with thinners and blue paper towel, once you add the clear theres no going back for an easy fix,

 

 

ah yea here you go http://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=8e1e0a589f5470054625804d67bb38d5

[craigowl 0]

To learn a new skill ? I assume you mean to build your own booth and possibly die breathing in toxic vapours , im a bit confused

 

No. Full of admiration for people who can do this kind of thing. When I was in my 30s, 40s, maybe even 50s, I spent countless hours touching up paintwork, protecting against rust, spraying using aerosols, making a mess and starting again, etc. Then I realised it was mostly a waste of time, because I never had a car longer than about 3 to 6 years. You never got any more money for them with all those hours put into them and the next owners got whatever benefit was created.

Soooooooooo. Unless you can promise yourself you will be keeping and showing the car for the next 10 to 15 years at least, I believe it is a waste of valuable time unless you absolutely love doing "this kind of thing."

Not wanting to rain on anybody's parade - just passing on some fatherly opinion based on hard won experience and a longer overview of life!

 

Best wishes whatever you do.

[davidwort 0]

I've had a stab at painting, quite therapeutic actually, a lot of time and prep. And materials end up costing a lot but I just like the satisfaction of having tried something and done what I think is a reasonable job. I've got some wheels I'm starting on now but the paint etc must have cost me near 100 quid

[sexybourbon 0]

I see what you mean now craigowl and can understand not wasting your time doing things but i think it is one of those things if you havent done before i think you want to learn a have a go , once you have done it maybe then thats when you decide its a wast of time like polishing your own wheels (never again haha ) .like david said its quite rewarding if you can get a good finish .

David what paint are you planning on using ? I think then i did my 16s it cost me around 40 quid for paint that was for primer colour coat and a 2k laquer plus the other bits like cups and stuff

[craigowl 0]

I've had a stab at painting, quite therapeutic actually, a lot of time and prep. And materials end up costing a lot but I just like the satisfaction of having tried something and done what I think is a reasonable job. I've got some wheels I'm starting on now but the paint etc must have cost me near 100 quid

 

I can tell you, the little specks of dust you can never safeguard against in the home environment made me feel most jobs were unsatisfactory. Depends how anal you are. I concluded that the job was for the professional on the bodywork, though I did do wheels satisfactorily, more than a couple of times. The next tyre fitter was always ready to undo your good work, quick as a flash, though!

 

My neighbour finds mowing the lawn and hoeing the weeds therapeutic, too, David. Ah, well each to his own - be boring if we all got kicks out of the same thing.

Edited September 4, 2012 by craigowl

[davidwort 0]

I've bought primer, celly VW silver colour base, thinner to go with that and then 2K clearcoat (so that's 2k clear + hardener + 2k thinner) plus 7 quid delivery, so it all adds up.

I've not used 2K before, I used a single ready thinned clear for my wings I did and although it's not as hard as 2K I thought it would probably be a bit safer and easier to work with, as I don't have an air fed mask (would need 2 compressors). apparently 2k clear is difficult to cut and polish as much harder.

2K clear is a must for wheels I think with all the salt spray and brake dust they get.

 

I like the idea of a 2K primer though, with a few early mistakes using cellulose colour it was a pain dissolving the primer underneath, but with the layers of primer I used for getting the surface smooth it would mean more spraying with 2k than I'm happy with atm.

 

I rigged up a plastic sheeting tent in my garage, one half of a double garage, I then used a fine weave net curtain over a frame I made to let filtered air in to the 'tent' and a long length of 30cm diameter coiled aluminium foil ducting stuff from ebay as the extraction hose, on the end I have a 2 fan mk3 golf radiator fan setup with the tubing connected to the belt driven fan blade side, that way I donj't have fumes flowing over an electric motor! it just runs off an old car battery and I use old T shirts over the ducting as a filter, works ok but paint in the air and fumes build up very quickly in the sparaying area even so.

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

i can totaly understand where craigowl is comming from, but i like doing this sort of thing and i couldnt stand back and let my car turn into a rust bucket so for me it was just investing in future proofing my car when it came down to bodywork, each to there own, i now feel confident with paint and body and think i could tackle most body related things on my car, like audi door handles, theres loads of people that would love this sort of thing but dont want to pay the price to get it done, also yea sure it takes alot of time in the prep stage but you will soon learn that when its done , its done so aslong as you do it right the first time you never have to touch it again,

 

from this ,

to this

this kind of thing would of easily cost over £1000

[davidwort 0]

My neighbour finds mowing the lawn and hoeing the weeds therapeutic, too, David. Ah, well each to his own - be boring if we all got kicks out of the same thing.

 

yep, mowing too, can't stand anyone else doing my lawn, I have a 'system' and like it cut 'just so' :lol: Mind you, I'm not sure if it's therapeutic or just anal!

I once came back from holiday and my father in law had helpfully 'scalped' my lawn for me, this year we made up a story about it having been 'weed and feeded' or something and that it mustn't be cut for a fortnight :)

[craigowl 0]

Haha! - I keep telling my wife the next door neighbour is "doing the Stepford Wife thing again" when I spot him mowing after it seems like he did it only 3 days ago!

He is from Govan, worked in the Clydeside shipyards at one time and went to school with Alex Ferguson. I say to him "fcs, you are a Govan man, what a poor image you are creating!

Jimmy Reid* would turn in his grave if he saw how you had turned out!"

He retorts with - "I've got to keep up with him across the road." (Dave over there has a flippin' petrol driven thing that makes a hell of a racket and he seems to be at it nearly every other day, too. As a hard worker now retired, he says he gets "cabin fever" sitting indoors!)

 

* legendary, articulate and learned shipyard union leader who organised the "sit in" at a Clyde shipyard in the 1970s IIRC.

"...........there will be NO bevying....."

was part of the instructions he gave to the massed workers in a famous speech that kicked off the sit-in.

Edited September 4, 2012 by craigowl

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

also any questions about paint you could post them up here on edition in the paint section, theres a few pro uk painters which will reply with in 24hrs

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showforum=120

[dghodges 0]

I've done a fair bit with this stuff... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Max-Meyer-0200-2K-Clear-Coat-Car-Lacquer-7-5ltr-Kit-/130436352511?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item1e5e9cc9ff#ht_1420wt_906

 

5l is the smallest quantity they do but you will probably never run out and seemed like a good price for a professional quality product. I recently sprayed my other half's meriva front wing. Not being big headed but it looks the best panel on the car and that's without any sort of polishing (car had been professionally resprayed before we bought it after some accident damage). It is really easy to use, 2 coats and job done. Sprayed the wing Saturday afternoon and fitted Sunday morning.

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

I can tell you, the little specks of dust you can never safeguard against in the home environment made me feel most jobs were unsatisfactory.

 

nope but you cant in pro booth either, sure it helps alot having a paint booth but theres allways going to be dust to some extent, the way to remove dust nibs on your clearcoat is wetsanding with 1500 + and buffing with compound to remove the fine scratchs to bring it back to gloss,but you need to have enough clear on your work to allow for aggressive wetsanding and buffing otherwise you could sand through to the basecoat,

dust in the primer stage doesnt realy matter as that gets flatted right back to atleast 600grit anyway.

dust in the basecoat is a pita!! as your under a time restraint to get the clear down {for chemical adhesion of the clear to basecoat} and sanding dust nibs out of basecoat means you have to blow over and blend that area that was sanded with more base before you put the clear down otherwise the sanded area will stick out like a saw thumb once you put clear over,

 

what i do , is lay the basedown with however many coats it takes to get full coverage , usualy something like 3-4 coats waiting 15minutes inbetween to allow the solvents to flash off, then wait almost an hour for it to dry then assess the work , find the realy bad dust nibs and remove them with 600 grit untill there gone then blow over all the areas that i sanded then wait another 30mins before useing a tac cloth to remove any dust thats settled then its time for clear,

in a diy enviroment you just have to work alot harder!!!

[KipVR 1]

My only advice that has not already been mentioned is...

 

1. Invest in good quality 3M sandpaper and rubber sanding block.

 

2. For the doors and sides use a larger piece of 2x4" wood cut to 14" long and wrap the paper round that (or a large sanding block if you can find one but the 3m ones are pricey),

 

3. When you are sanding, go diagonally across the panels with the block parallel to the floor, this method gives you the flattest finish.

 

4. When you are wet sanding keep a bar of soap in the water, then any pieces of grit caught in the water roll instead of scratch.

 

5. Coarser grades of paper are better for geting a flat surface- if you used 1200 for everything, you would simply have smooth bumps.

 

6. Take the car back to metal if it's had a re-spray already, you can always tell a car that's had lots of paint because all the radi are bigger and not so crisp. Also on things like bumbers, if you have a bump, the paint cracks. Stripping bumpers well is difficult though, do not use a paint strpper on plastics, they absorb the stripper and the new paint comes off easily. You can strip a car of paint in a couple of nights (excluding the engine bay), use a heat gun and scraper for the easy bits, and some starchem chemical stripper for the nooks and crannies with one of these wire brushes (links below). This is the only stripper left with any poke to it, all the rest are less effective just incase you drink it! Use it in a well ventilated area though! Those wire brushes are particularly good for paint stripping I don't know why!

 

7. ALWAYS use a guide coat, once after a 400 grit flat on high build primer(depending on how straight the panels are), and then again for a quick 600 after the 400 to get rid of the scratches.

 

8. Always use filler onto bare metal- ie don't fill onto paint, and get the panels straight etc before doing any primer.

 

9. Always use an acid etch primer onto bare metal before the high build primer.

 

10. Try not to sand the bare metal, you see so many people do this, it takes off the galvanising (the dull grey coat).

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAND-WIRE-BRUSH-HEAVY-DUTY-WITH-PLASTIC-HANDLE-DIY-TOOL-RUST-PAINT-METAL-REMOVER-/160749860190?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item256d70355e

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Starchem-5-Ltr-Paint-Stripper-Synstrip-/290770048150?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item43b33ed496

Edited September 7, 2012 by KipVR

[davidwort 0]

Some great advice and the e38 forum is great, 50 odd pages to trawl through. I've just sanded cleaned and acid etched a pair of wheels for my 8v today, seems to b coming on ok, hopefully paint tomorrow.