1.8 to VR6 engine conversion

[simonoll 0]

Hi guys

Been a member of the forum a few years now, sort of skirting around the outside, I've owned 2 G60’s and 3 VR6’s one after another over the last 15 years

I unfortunately crashed my beloved mint storm 2 weeks ago at 80 mph on ice and well it’s not going to go back on the road anytime soon, gutted, and I may have put it back on the road had the police not recovered it by its roof, so as I needed a car and nothing else will do and after looking around I find a H reg 1.8 with a nice riger body kit, bonnet, front end, skirts and rear badge conversion single wiper in a euro looker style, looks nice from the outside with good paint and a good starting point for a nice car with rot, but it’s macanicls are bit ropey and loose and not without is 21 years of fiddling and elec problems not to mention the usual popped heater matrix, which I am by now a master of replacing!!! Already swopped out the cloth for the leather interior, which looks good with the black plastics? Just need to pull the heater loom for the seats.

After owning G60 and VR cars straight for so long I need to re engine this car, its just to light on the front end and has no top end grunt like I like with the VR, and im sure the 1.8 tuned up right with a few longer gears in the gear box would make a sweet set up, but as I have a just rebuilt vr6 engine in my poor poor storm as the donor and the front and back ends are straight.

Is it a big job, Would it be a case of undo strut tops exhaust, wiring, cables, fuel/brake lines etc drop the sub frame, same on the 1.8 and roll in the vr lift up and bolt in, man that sounds so easy, Yea right, lol

Not going to bother with the ABS

Is it worth swopping out the rear axle or is it just a case of spindle and hub’s, brakes etc?

[destructiv dave 0]

Firstly, sorry to hear about your crash.

 

As to effectively re-shelling your Storm into this new (old) shell... yes it is basically what you said, but as you would imagine it will be far from straightforward. However with some patience and being methodical you should be ok. Think you will need the VR slam panel or if not will have to do some fettling as the rad won't slot straight into an early slam panel. Might have to change the bonnet for a late style one as well.

 

Not sure about fuel lines. Would imagine you'll be ok with what you have but worth checking. Brake lines will be ok, but you may wish to change the rear beam as the VR beam is slightly wider and takes beefier bushes.

 

You will have early dash and door cards so if you want the late door cards, you could either transfer over the relevant parts of the interior loom or do a search on this forum for more info.

 

But... With the price for Corrado's as they are at the moment, you might be able to get a cheap VR shell, and then you would only have to do an engine and interior swap.

Edited December 21, 2012 by destructiv dave

[seanl82 23]

Whole front running gear, subframe, bonnet as well to your list mate. Clocks, ecu, wiring loom etc etc

[Critical_Mass 10]

I'll say it before anyone else does - you'd be best off just buying another VR. The swap wont be simple as Sean says that list is long.

[simonoll 0]

Yep It would be easy to go out and pick up a non-runner VR, but I don’t have the funds for that, plus this new one has a nice body and will be just the ticket when it’s done, it’s going to have to be the hard way I’m afraid guy’s, I know it’s guna be a lot of work, but I have no option, if I do the engine swop first, that’s the big job done, not sure I want to change to the late bonnet as current one is a riger one so would be a shame to have to lose it???

What about the electrics and why do I need the clocks apart from the obvious knowing correct engine mileage???

and if needed then is it just swop out the clock or is it loom as well, it can’t be as straight forward as just clocks , can it, I hate electrics???

[seanl82 23]

Early valver bonnet dips in at the middle, the VR is too big, hence the reason it was changed when the vr's came in to a raised middle part. The clocks are different, as the rev counter is lower (7k iirc) on the VR, where as it goes to 8k on the valver, top speed is also different I think, so speedo drive will show incorrect speed. Not only will the revs be off too, but early valvers took revs via vacuum pipe at the back of the clocks, whereas the vr takes it electrically from the ecu. Thats also the reason for loom probably. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

[joby 0]

where abouts in north wales are you, as im in colwyn bay

[captainredeye 0]

I unfortunately crashed my beloved mint storm 2 weeks ago at 80 mph on ice

 

Darwin award? Don't let your insurance company know or post that on the internet.

 

Seriously though buying a vr is a damn site easier, everything needs be chaged I would of thought the engine mounting points are different and need welding

[rado mc 0]

As destructive dave touched on the later corrados are wider than the early ones hence the broader wing panel design as well bonnet without recess.

[destructiv dave 0]

Seriously though buying a vr is a damn site easier, everything needs be chaged I would of thought the engine mounting points are different and need welding

 

Engine mounts (well rear and gearbox) are onto the subframe with the front engine mount to a front engine cradle so no welding required.

 

Simon, I agree with the opinions of others that it might be just as easy to look for another shell and swap over what you have, but the swap you are proposing is doable so don't be put off on those grounds. It would be easiest to have the two cars next to each other and effectively swap all the electrics over bar the rear loom into the tailgate.

 

Other things that may need to be swapped over include the fuel pump (though the k-jet should be sufficient), rear beam and bonnet. After all people have been putting VRs into Mk2's for ages so it depends how 'factory' you want the final article.

[simonoll 0]

Joby im in Halkyn mate,

So ok guys so the general consensus is it’s a big do-able job, what other engine options are there that would fit the 1.8 sub-frame then that would give the same performance or better than the VR???, I could maybe sell the storm to fund it.

No to worryed about this car being factory, just running sweet and looking cool is fine by me.

[simonoll 0]

This is the car,(see attached) and rolling on German made AZEV alloys, which is nice, all this car needs is a bigger engine and i will be well happy, done the heater matrix yesterday, man i hate doing that job it's such a ball acke its untrue, No more foam bits hitting me in the face, lol

[GrahamU 5]

Looks a good car, 2 questions, where are the indicators and whats different about the bonnet?

 

The odvious alternative to fitting a VR would be the 1.8t, easily get 240bhp with a k03s turbo or 270 from a k04 turbo

Just wont have the same noise.

[seanl82 23]

The difference in the bonnets are that the early C's have a recessed bonnet, so looking from the front its -_-

whereas the later bonnet is raised in the middle, so _-_

 

If you can make sense of that!

 

---------- Post added at 6:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 6:26 PM ----------

 

The difference in the bonnets are that the early C's have a recessed bonnet, so looking from the front its -_-

whereas the later bonnet is raised in the middle, so _-_

 

If you can make sense of that!

[GrahamU 5]

The difference in the bonnets are that the early C's have a recessed bonnet, so looking from the front its -_-

whereas the later bonnet is raised in the middle, so _-_

 

If you can make sense of that!

 

 

 

No, whats the difference between an early and a reiger bonnet, Simon wrote he didn't want to change to a late bonnet as he liked the reiger one

[simonoll 0]

You know rado20vT its probably an early bonnet, is was said when i picked the car up that the bonnet was a riger but thinking about it its probably just an early bonnet and me and the guy that sold it me don't know nothing about bonnets, lol

 

Good Question on the Indicators, when i picked up the car the head lights didn’t work, no main beam but the indicators worked well they clicked at the right speed from in side the cab, but when i was going round the wiring to sort the main beam turns out the fogs are now the indicators and the small side repeaters been moved down to the front valance?, all of which is a pain as i wanted to fit angle eyes, but unable to unless i can sum how open them up and fit a row of led's in there??????

 

so what would be involved in transplanting a 1.8 turbo

200+hp sounds ok to me

[joby 0]

You know rado20vT its probably an early bonnet, is was said when i picked the car up that the bonnet was a riger but thinking about it its probably just an early bonnet and me and the guy that sold it me don't know nothing about bonnets, lol

 

Good Question on the Indicators, when i picked up the car the head lights didn’t work, no main beam but the indicators worked well they clicked at the right speed from in side the cab, but when i was going round the wiring to sort the main beam turns out the fogs are now the indicators and the small side repeaters been moved down to the front valance?, all of which is a pain as i wanted to fit angle eyes, but unable to unless i can sum how open them up and fit a row of led's in there??????

 

so what would be involved in transplanting a 1.8 turbo

200+hp sounds ok to me

Check this thread out, not far from us either

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?77580-north-wales-20vt-build-)-first-try/page3

[Erny 0]

Am i right in thinking you have your old vr6 as a donor? If so this swap is a walk in the park even for a novice. You have all you need and swapping in a 1.8t will only cost you more money and time. Take lots of pictures and label anything your unsure of. All the wiring you undo at the fuseboard end make sure you plug in the same on the new car, relays etc. Its much easier than into a Mk2. No need to ding chassis leg for pulleys its already done. You will have to continue using the 16v fuel tank and pump. As the vr one doesnt fit. You already have hydro cluch etc. Youll need to plug in your vr clocks. Everything else swaps over. Simply undo it at the suspension and subframe If you want to continue using the early style of bonnet you may need to shave the engine mount down alittle. My advice is to be as methodical as possible when removing everything from your donor car. Take your time and think it all through youll learn alot removing all the vr stuff. Its all in the prep. Ill happily give you my number and talk you thru anything your unsure of before and during.

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

yea i personaly dont think the swap is that big of a deal if under the right circumstances i.e you have a nice dry place to carry out the work with engine crane etc , if you dont have a decent sized shed with concrete floor and engine crane etc then yea i could see why people would say its easier to buy a vr, also whats the crack with having to swap the subframes over? i was told that the mk3 golf subframes are all the same for the 4cylinder engines and for the vr6, so if thats true then theres no reason why a vr wont bolt up to a 4cylinder rado subframe? or do people say to swap subframes because its easier to swap the lot over for wide track purposes? , personaly i would keep it 4stud for the variety of 4x100 wheels available, op if you have the work space,tools and time get R dun!!!

[Erny 0]

Mk3 golf 4and 6 cylinder and rado 6 cylinder subframes are the same, mk2 golf and corrado 4 cylinder subframes are different, down to years of manufacture and VW trying to share parts across cars ied guess

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

Mk3 golf 4and 6 cylinder and rado 6 cylinder subframes are the same, mk2 golf and corrado 4 cylinder subframes are different, down to years of manufacture and VW trying to share parts across cars ied guess

 

sound so thats true then, ok seeing as the mk3 4cylinder subframes are the same as vr6 that means the subframe mounting points are the same {for vr6 and 4cylinder engines } just different engine mount bracket for the vr6, so does this mean that you can bolt a vr6 into the mk2 golf / 4cyl rado subframe? or are the subframe mountings completley different?

[Erny 0]

The vr6 rear engine bracket wont fit onto a mk2/corrado 4cylinder mount. You could always fabricate yoir own. The 4cylinder brackets wont fit the vr6 block.

 

Theres 2 differnt rear engine brackets for 4cyl engines, one that fits mk2/rado 4cyl subframes and one that fits mk3 16v/vr6 and rado vr6 subframes.

So for 4cylinder engines you have a choice of subframe, vr6 your stuck to just the one type. Ive chosen the vr6 style of subframe for my mk2 20v because the mounts are much better. I had to source a mk3 16v bracket and got polymount off mr renshaw.

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

ah thanks for clearing that up ,all makes sense now,

[simonoll 0]

Some good advice guys, and VW_OwneR_85 your right I’m just going to bite the bullet and swop out the 1.8 for the vr6, I have 2 vr6 cars both runners sitting on the drive one the storm(crashed) and a blue one with a fecked front hub which also runs but the body is well ruff with rust round the boot glass rubbers and windscreen, lower quarters and inner wings, it’s a bit of a dog but has a good solid engine, I have sold this to a friend to restore, run out of mot two years ago and as I had a company car I just let it sit on the drive, and he’s not picked it up or paid me for it yet?

2 years?????

 

So it’s time for doing, I’m going to make a start next weekend by moving the cars around so I can start removing the wiring loom from the storm.

The blue one will come in handy as a reference point, I bet he aske’s to pick it up???

As soon as I’ve dropped the front and back off the storm and pulled a few box’s of spares from it the shell will be off to the scrap yard

I will take you up on that advice Erny I will take a ruck of pictures prior to starting off too

For me I think the hardest part of this will be the wiring, I have no issue with the mechanical side of things that’s just cut fingers and knuckles easy.