Anyone know Swampy (Banned User)

[somersetdub 0]

Hi guys.

What I bought was 2 x banjo ended front brake lines for my corrado vr6 with 288mm mk3 calipers.

When I received them I found that the banjo ends were sloppy fitting around the bolt - you can move the banjo side to side etc while the bolt is through the middle of it. - however, with the washers fitted as they should either side, the fitting did seal up, so that is how they still are on my car.. They don't leak, but I had to centralise the bolt in relation to the banjo to get it to seal.

I contacted Swampy about this at the time and he said he could send me two bolts at a price (can't remember the price now, although it should all be on my pms).. When the new bolts came through they were too wide, not fitting the banjo or the thread in the caliper.

I contacted Swampy again and he said he would look into it further. That was my last pm from him.

I should have chased it up further, but I found him fairly blunt and defensive and as I said the hoses do work/don't leak so I left it. I also thought that maybe that's just they way they are... Many other people seemed to be buying hoses at the time without complaint.

I have bought items from a few folk on here and always found it a safe and friendly site with knowledgeable, genuine enthusiasts who couldn't be more helpful when it comes to answering any concerns or questions. Not so in this case, I found a guy trying to make as much money as possible, with the pretence of helping other members (just my opinion).

I used it as a lesson learned and in future will buy my hoses from vw or Goodridge.

 

Cheers

[Supercharged 2]

Swampy - can you refund that amount for the incorrect banjo bolts asap please including any postage costs.

[somersetdub 0]

And further to your last statement Swampy, I did remove the old rubber lines before fitting your braided ones and the banjos on them didn't flop around like a dogs..... in a bucket. There was a noticeable difference in the play around the banjo bolt.

I am a trained mechanic (although havent worked in the trade for many years) and when I fitted the hoses I was at my friends workshop and he is also a trained mechanic. The fitting was clearly sloppy. Admittedly we didn't measure up to find out exact dimensions of each component, but I have enough experience to know when something doesn't fit quite as it should.

 

---------- Post added at 9:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 9:09 AM ----------

 

Also, I didn't buy the calipers.. I removed them from a mk3 I broke and at the same time I removed the CORRECT ORIGINAL vw banjo bolts which fitted perfectly.

It is best to get all the facts before casting aspersions.

[swampy 0]

Hi guys.

What I bought was 2 x banjo ended front brake lines for my corrado vr6 with 288mm mk3 calipers.

When I received them I found that the banjo ends were sloppy fitting around the bolt - you can move the banjo side to side etc while the bolt is through the middle of it. - however, with the washers fitted as they should either side, the fitting did seal up, so that is how they still are on my car.. They don't leak, but I had to centralise the bolt in relation to the banjo to get it to seal.

I contacted Swampy about this at the time and he said he could send me two bolts at a price (can't remember the price now, although it should all be on my pms).. When the new bolts came through they were too wide, not fitting the banjo or the thread in the caliper.

I contacted Swampy again and he said he would look into it further. That was my last pm from him.

I should have chased it up further, but I found him fairly blunt and defensive and as I said the hoses do work/don't leak so I left it. I also thought that maybe that's just they way they are... Many other people seemed to be buying hoses at the time without complaint.

I have bought items from a few folk on here and always found it a safe and friendly site with knowledgeable, genuine enthusiasts who couldn't be more helpful when it comes to answering any concerns or questions. Not so in this case, I found a guy trying to make as much money as possible, with the pretence of helping other members (just my opinion).

I used it as a lesson learned and in future will buy my hoses from vw or Goodridge.

 

Cheers

 

That is exactly how a banjo end is

There is a small amount of play between the inner sides of the end and the bolt, it then seals with the washers, hundreds of thousands of cars run with this set up as standard.

The very same end is used on the mk4 kits supplied by black diamond (as the company that supplies me make all the lines for them who them rebrand them)

I'm not here for profit at all, in fact it's so minimal you can't call it profit, by the time I have factored In phone bills to order, envelopes, postage and fuel /time to get to the post office I just about break even on each set.

 

As a trained mechanic if you thought the lines were that bad with that much play then you wouldn't of fitted them or used them on the road , plenty of other mechanics have used exactly the same items supplied by with out issue.

 

As for the rears people like Riley and john mitchell racing have them and say they are spot on quality and fitment wise

 

 

If the bolts are sent back to me then I will offer a refund

Edited April 12, 2013 by swampy

[somersetdub 0]

You're never wrong it seems.

 

If you read my post again you will see that I have a direct comparison -

 

original VW banjo end, perfect fit.

Aftermarket Swampy special end, sloppy fit.

 

 

Yes I am a trained mechanic and I explained that because I centralised the banjo end onto the bolt I managed to get them to seal, so I ran with them. It's not ideal, but I will at some point get some proper goodridge ones on there.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what I did with the other incorrect banjo bolts you sent me, so don't worry about the refund, I'm just glad I don't have to do business with you again! :-)

[swampy 0]

You're never wrong it seems.

 

If you read my post again you will see that I have a direct comparison -

 

original VW banjo end, perfect fit.

Aftermarket Swampy special end, sloppy fit.

 

 

Yes I am a trained mechanic and I explained that because I centralised the banjo end onto the bolt I managed to get them to seal, so I ran with them. It's not ideal, but I will at some point get some proper goodridge ones on there.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what I did with the other incorrect banjo bolts you sent me, so don't worry about the refund, I'm just glad I don't have to do business with you again! :-)

 

That's not what I said.

The thing with the orginal bolts is they are fitted to the banjo end in such away that they can't easily be removed which makes them feel tighter in the gap than they actually are.

 

I didn't design or machine the ends, I use ones that are used by a large multinational company on lines they supply worldwide, I am not saying they are perfect as they do differ from the originals in design, but they are suitable for the job (im sure black diamond wouldn't use them if they were not).

When any item is machined there are tolerances to which it can be done, this is true of everything from genuine items to aftermarket, a minimum and maximum .

[somersetdub 0]

They cannot be easily removed because the sealing washers crush around them making it necessary to unscrew the washer from the thread, not because the fit is so tight that you can't pull them out!

[swampy 0]

They are a crush washer yes,but that is between the caliper and base of banjo and top of banjo and under head of bolt, they do not get caught up in the threads in my experiance, but then in no mechanic ( did spend five years procuring obsolete parts for the armed forces though working only from diagrams and measuring items to design a spec)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I had to centralise the bolt in relation to the banjo to get it to seal.

 

You shouldn't have to do that. In a correct banjo + bolt pairing, the bolt shoulder aligns the banjo correctly so that a uniform pressure is applied across the copper washer's surface. If the banjo is askew, the sealing integrity is compromised.

 

If it were me I'd take those lines off, toss them in the garbage and get some proper Goodridge ones.

[somersetdub 0]

That's what I'll be doing!

 

As I said, i did get them to seal once centralised and we tested for leaks with the brake fully applied over a considerable amount of time and I am satisfied that they don't leak. - But as you quite rightly said Kev, you shouldn't have to do that.

Edited April 12, 2013 by somersetdub

[swampy 0]

You shouldn't have to do that. In a correct banjo + bolt pairing, the bolt shoulder aligns the banjo correctly so that a uniform pressure is applied across the copper washer's surface. If the banjo is askew, the sealing integrity is compromised.

 

.

 

There is nothing at all wrong with the lines, plenty of people have an opinion based on what has being written on a thread.

 

Far more people than the ones posting here have these lines fitted yet they are perfectly happy with them.

 

The ends are correct and as used by black diamond, the company that make these makes hundreds if sets of mk4 hoses a year (all using the same fitting as these) would they be doing them if they were incorrect?

No they would go back and re design the parts and re machine them.

 

As I have said already an m10 banjo bolt is anm10 banjo bolt, the actual width of it will always be the same (give or take a minute amount) they do not come in different sizes, they are an industry recognised size, all manufactures should make them to that size.

The shoulder of them isn't an interference fit thru the banjo end, they do have a small amount of movement this is common and the norm.

 

I may not be a mechanic but I have more experiance than most people when it comes to cars, trucks, tanks and bikes.

My road car runs the same ends on it via BREMBO calipers and they fit fine.

Edited April 12, 2013 by swampy

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Some people don't know any better and that's the worrying part. Brakes are the most important part of the car and your nonchalant attitude is disturbing. You typify everything that is bad service in this country. The customer is always wrong and you vehemently defend the product. It's funny how you suddenly appear when the quality of your product is brought into question, but vanish when it comes to settling disputes.

[somersetdub 0]

Well Swampy, once I have removed the brake lines and replaced them with Goodridge, what I will do is get out my verniers, measure the difference in banjo width I am talking about and take some photos. I can then post the photos on here so that there will be no disputing the fact that they are a different size to the original vw item.

 

You make it sound like I'm making it up!

 

Also, what do black diamond think of you using their name against your products? Should I go to them with a warranty claim?

 

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

 

Some people don't know any better and that's the worrying part. Brakes are the most important part of the car and your nonchalant attitude is disturbing. You typify everything that is bad service in this country. The customer is always wrong and you vehemently defend the product. It's funny how you suddenly appear when the quality of your product is brought into question, but vanish when it comes to settling disputes.

 

^^^ this. So eloquently said.

[captainredeye 0]

I had this problem with the original brake lines I recieved, not 100% but dont mk4 calipers and mk3 use different sizes of banjo bolts on the 288mm brakes and this is where this problem is stemming from?

[corrado wannabe 10]

Are the originals obsolete?

[somersetdub 0]

I had this problem with the original brake lines I recieved, not 100% but dont mk4 calipers and mk3 use different sizes of banjo bolts on the 288mm brakes and this is where this problem is stemming from?

 

Sounds feasible and would explain why my lines clearly don't fit quite as they should.

[swampy 0]

Well Swampy, once I have removed the brake lines and replaced them with Goodridge, what I will do is get out my verniers, measure the difference in banjo width I am talking about and take some photos. I can then post the photos on here so that there will be no disputing the fact that they are a different size to the original vw item.

 

You make it sound like I'm making it up!

 

Also, what do black diamond think of you using their name against your products? Should I go to them with a warranty claim?

 

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

 

 

^^^ this. So eloquently said.

 

I am mearly stating that the ends on the hoses you have and the ends used on the sets black diamond supply come off the same machine , just a point to show that the ends are good quality and to a high standard

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I had this problem with the original brake lines I recieved, not 100% but dont mk4 calipers and mk3 use different sizes of banjo bolts on the 288mm brakes and this is where this problem is stemming from?

 

MK4/MK3 ATE 288s use the same banjo end, but the bolts can vary in thread pitch. The original VR6 280 calipers use completely different ends and bolts.

 

It's a shame the thread ended up as a witch hunt but I think we need to get to the bottom of the issues with the fitment because your reputation is at stake Swampy. We encourage and welcome trading on here but customer disputes need to be handled professionally and customers given the benefit of the doubt in the first instance.

[bristolbaron 10]

[constructivecriticism]From reading through the thread you aren't making any profit from a product which is clearly problematic. Why bother?

Stick with the stainless bolts and don't let this avenue tarnish your name.. [/constructivecriticism]

[swampy 0]

[constructivecriticism]From reading through the thread you aren't making any profit from a product which is clearly problematic. Why bother?

Stick with the stainless bolts and don't let this avenue tarnish your name.. [/constructivecriticism]

 

As stated elsewhere

I have four pairs of the mk4 type conversion hoses and one set of standard vr6 fitment lines (all 6) ready to sell them I'm shutting up.

 

Yep it will be sad not to help people out but due to other work and time constraints its what needs to be done for a while.

That's across all the parts I sell

[Supercharged 2]

Swampy - out of interest can you measure the banjo size / hole ID of these hoses and let us know what they are...

 

I've just done a handlebar replacement / upgrade on a BMW S1000RR bike which involved extending a banjo connection slightly - the one supplied in the kit was for an M10x1 bolt and the ID of the connector was 10.03-10.05 according to my digital calipers (suspect it might be 10.0 dead in reality) and the bolt fit was snug with no play - how it should be!

 

As Kev says, the only difference is the thread pitch of the bolts with the mk3 / mk4 ATE calipers so should not affect the connector ID

[swampy 0]

Swampy - out of interest can you measure the banjo size / hole ID of these hoses and let us know what they are...

 

I've just done a handlebar replacement / upgrade on a BMW S1000RR bike which involved extending a banjo connection slightly - the one supplied in the kit was for an M10x1 bolt and the ID of the connector was 10.03-10.05 according to my digital calipers (suspect it might be 10.0 dead in reality) and the bolt fit was snug with no play - how it should be!

 

As Kev says, the only difference is the thread pitch of the bolts with the mk3 / mk4 ATE calipers so should not affect the connector ID

 

I could if I had a set here or a set of vernier available to me.

 

Items such as these are made to order.

 

---------- Post added at 4:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 4:29 PM ----------

 

Swampy - out of interest can you measure the banjo size / hole ID of these hoses and let us know what they are...

 

I've just done a handlebar replacement / upgrade on a BMW S1000RR bike which involved extending a banjo connection slightly - the one supplied in the kit was for an M10x1 bolt and the ID of the connector was 10.03-10.05 according to my digital calipers (suspect it might be 10.0 dead in reality) and the bolt fit was snug with no play - how it should be!

 

As Kev says, the only difference is the thread pitch of the bolts with the mk3 / mk4 ATE calipers so should not affect the connector ID

 

I could if I had a set here or a set of vernier available to me.

 

Items such as these are made to order.

 

I have got a set to fit BREMBO calipers to a citroen c2 here, these also use a 10mm banjo bolt fitting, having measured that the bolt has around 1mm of movement possible, it's by no means tight but also not excessively loose.

I have supplied lines with this end (for Peugeot fitment BREMBO) for the last six years and not had any issues.

An m10 banjo and bolt are all made to the same specification, just the pitch and length vary (as I have said many times but everyone ignores)

[clumpy1 11]

You're never wrong it seems.

 

If you read my post again you will see that I have a direct comparison -

 

original VW banjo end, perfect fit.

Aftermarket Swampy special end, sloppy fit.

 

 

Yes I am a trained mechanic and I explained that because I centralised the banjo end onto the bolt I managed to get them to seal, so I ran with them. It's not ideal, but I will at some point get some proper goodridge ones on there.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what I did with the other incorrect banjo bolts you sent me, so don't worry about the refund, I'm just glad I don't have to do business with you again! :-)

This is exactly the attitude i got with my leaking hoses was subsequently told it was my heavy handed mechanic that must have done the job wrong do us a favour mate the people on this forum are people who love their car's do you think we use muppet's who don't know what they are doing.I ended up getting goodridge hoses from venom spot on better quality i am only annoyed about the getting messed about the money is of no relevance you obviously need it more and you are obviously not an enthusiast either.:joker2:

 

---------- Post added at 4:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 4:42 PM ----------

 

You shouldn't have to do that. In a correct banjo + bolt pairing, the bolt shoulder aligns the banjo correctly so that a uniform pressure is applied across the copper washer's surface. If the banjo is askew, the sealing integrity is compromised.

 

If it were me I'd take those lines off, toss them in the garbage and get some proper Goodridge ones.

Exactly what i done Kev :D

 

---------- Post added at 4:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 4:45 PM ----------

 

Some people don't know any better and that's the worrying part. Brakes are the most important part of the car and your nonchalant attitude is disturbing. You typify everything that is bad service in this country. The customer is always wrong and you vehemently defend the product. It's funny how you suddenly appear when the quality of your product is brought into question, but vanish when it comes to settling disputes.

Excellent i am just a bit frustrated that it has taken so long for this to have got the attention it deserves i and a good friend of mine nearly died in my car because of brakes done in an amateur fashion then i put my faith in someone on the forum for my car expecting the dog's danglies it was the dogs but it certainly wasn't the danglies!!......

[swampy 0]

I wonderd how long it would be before clumpy piped up.

 

You took your hose to a local place to you to be looked and discoverd it was merely a miss seated olive in the socket, now these are made in a jig thing (not by me, by a professionally company) this ensures that the braide is split correctly, the olive is then pushed over the ptfe liner and the two parts if the union screwed togeather forming a seal.

It is VERY rare for this to go wrong in manufacture ( but being heavy handed with it by pulling on the hose once the fitting is in place can easily damage it) and cause a leak, but it is very simple to rectify (as I'm sure the hose specialist told you) would of taken the company under a minute to rectify, certainly doesn't make the hose no good or dangerous once it is sorted.

[clumpy1 11]

I wonderd how long it would be before clumpy piped up.

 

You took your hose to a local place to you to be looked and discoverd it was merely a miss seated olive in the socket, now these are made in a jig thing (not by me, by a professionally company) this ensures that the braide is split correctly, the olive is then pushed over the ptfe liner and the two parts if the union screwed togeather forming a seal.

It is VERY rare for this to go wrong in manufacture ( but being heavy handed with it by pulling on the hose once the fitting is in place can easily damage it) and cause a leak, but it is very simple to rectify (as I'm sure the hose specialist told you) would of taken the company under a minute to rectify, certainly doesn't make the hose no good or dangerous once it is sorted.

Yes it was taken to local pirtek branch and they agreed that they were sub standard anyway as said i am not bothered about the money i was more concerned about other forum member's and seeing as you are going to be shutting up shop anyway :wave: and good riddance.