Audi TT mk1 V6 or BMW E46 330Ci MSport?

[maff 10]

As a package, the TT with it's better interior, R32 noise, DSG shifts and 4WD is the better of the two imo.

 

Fit a blue haldex, defcon bushes and MK4 R32 struts to the TT and you'll have a very tidy handler indeed.

 

I don't really like TTs that much but I'd take that over an E46. Don't be put off by DSG issues. Anything German and 6 cylinder is going to cost you regardless.

 

Gotta disagree on the six cylinder engine cost, don't they have a reputation for being pretty bombproof?!, i have a straight six diesel which has now rolled round to 187,000 miles and its been the most reliable car i've ever owned, and doesn't burn a drop of oil between services either! And i pay £320 a year for the bm and £200 for the vr on a limited mileage policy

[Ruggy 10]

I've gotta agree on the 6 cylinder BMW, everybody I've spoken to, including a couple of mechanics have said the engines pretty bomb proof. One of the main reasons I'm going for one.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I wasn't talking about the engine specifically, but the whole car in general. No German car is cheap to own, nor completely reliable. I've owned 6 cyl BMWs and know what some of the parts cost.

 

DSG issues are blown out of proportion. TT pods, yawn, that was fixed years ago. Central locking issue, £100, hardly the end of the world. Rattles, you only get those when previous owners have f'cked about with interior and that goes for ANY car.

 

I think N3P hit the nail on the head. The E46 is OK but hardly blows your skirt up. Same can be said of all BMWs unless they're M models imo.

[Sean_Jaymo 0]

The POTENTIAL of the 2 cars would make me choose the TT. If I wasn't going to mess about with either, then I would probably choose the E46. But then half the local "council" idiots drive around in them and that is enough for me to choose the hairdressers car.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

But then half the local "council" idiots drive around in them and that is enough for me to choose the hairdressers car.

 

Yup! I see the same in Essex as well. They are everywhere. The M3 is a very fine car indeed, but the 320, 325, 330... they all feel the same to me. They're not bad cars, just not exciting either!

 

You can get some nice turbo kits for E46s though :D

[maff 10]

I wasn't talking about the engine specifically, but the whole car in general. No German car is cheap to own, nor completely reliable. I've owned 6 cyl BMWs and know what some of the parts cost.

 

DSG issues are blown out of proportion. TT pods, yawn, that was fixed years ago. Central locking issue, £100, hardly the end of the world. Rattles, you only get those when previous owners have f'cked about with interior and that goes for ANY car.

 

I think N3P hit the nail on the head. The E46 is OK but hardly blows your skirt up. Same can be said of all BMWs unless they're M models imo.

 

Really? bmw do value line servicing for the e46, parts are very reasonable, it's no more expensive to run an 'old' bmw over a ford focus these days, ok it helped me having a good friend who has worked for bmw for most of his life but the expensive bmw thing is a myth if you ask me! £99 for an oil change? yes please, lower m tech control arms, stupid money from main dealer but aftermarket meyle hd ones are a third of the price and are better, you just have to do some research on the best place to source parts.

I agree there are loads of 325, 330's all over the place probably because they are a cracking car, really wish i hadn't sold my e30 318is years ago, they are a fortune to buy now.

I'd be looking at a honda s2000, porsche boxster etc over an old tt, its never been a good car to start with whereas the bmw has a handling reputation for a reason, i had an audi s4 once, nice but boring, ttrs looks good and the b7 rs4 is about the only audi i've heard of thats any good after the original quattro, but i'm not biased at all:-D

[clumpy1 11]

Really? bmw do value line servicing for the e46, parts are very reasonable, it's no more expensive to run an 'old' bmw over a ford focus these days, ok it helped me having a good friend who has worked for bmw for most of his life but the expensive bmw thing is a myth if you ask me! £99 for an oil change? yes please, lower m tech control arms, stupid money from main dealer but aftermarket meyle hd ones are a third of the price and are better, you just have to do some research on the best place to source parts.

I agree there are loads of 325, 330's all over the place probably because they are a cracking car, really wish i hadn't sold my e30 318is years ago, they are a fortune to buy now.

I'd be looking at a honda s2000, porsche boxster etc over an old tt, its never been a good car to start with whereas the bmw has a handling reputation for a reason, i had an audi s4 once, nice but boring, ttrs looks good and the b7 rs4 is about the only audi i've heard of thats any good after the original quattro, but i'm not biased at all:-D

When an R32 engined Corrado can make a double the power M5 make it hard for it to get away up the rev range I can't see me buying any BMW soon and I speak from experience ;)

[Jim 2]

When an R32 engined Corrado can make a double the power M5 make it hard for it to get away up the rev range I can't see me buying any BMW soon and I speak from experience ;)

 

Given that the E39 M5 made 400BHP and the E60 M5 makes 500BHP, it'd take some serious engineering work to get a Corrado to double that sort of performance! Unless you mean power to weight, in which case I'd imagine that was a bit easier to achieve as the M5's must weigh a tonne :)

 

And whilst I do enjoy a Corrado being made into a Q car / giant slayer (and I've had my chance to drive a couple and know what sort of smile they can put on your face) for me it's never been purely about the headline figure of the power. It's the entire package - the refinement of a big bruising engine like the V8 or the V10, the engineering that goes into the chassis/drivetrain which makes it designed for and to cope with that sort of power and of course the fact that something like the M5 also retains total practicality with its jekyll and hyde personality - you can take the family away for the weekend in comfort, or you can go tearing round the country lanes worrying super cars.

 

Of course it totally depends what you need from your cars as to what you want, and I get that everyone is different (and if we all liked the same stuff it would be very boring!) but with used car prices like they are these days, older M3's and M5's are a tough package to beat.

[clumpy1 11]

Given that the E39 M5 made 400BHP and the E60 M5 makes 500BHP, it'd take some serious engineering work to get a Corrado to double that sort of performance! Unless you mean power to weight, in which case I'd imagine that was a bit easier to achieve as the M5's must weigh a tonne :)

 

And whilst I do enjoy a Corrado being made into a Q car / giant slayer (and I've had my chance to drive a couple and know what sort of smile they can put on your face) for me it's never been purely about the headline figure of the power. It's the entire package - the refinement of a big bruising engine like the V8 or the V10, the engineering that goes into the chassis/drivetrain which makes it designed for and to cope with that sort of power and of course the fact that something like the M5 also retains total practicality with its jekyll and hyde personality - you can take the family away for the weekend in comfort, or you can go tearing round the country lanes worrying super cars.

 

Of course it totally depends what you need from your cars as to what you want, and I get that everyone is different (and if we all liked the same stuff it would be very boring!) but with used car prices like they are these days, older M3's and M5's are a tough package to beat.

Totally agree with what your saying regarding the older m3/m5's and yes I was talking about the power to weight I was in no way trying to say I gave an M5 a clobbering I have had a couple of beer's but still have my sense's (I think :drinking:) I was like an annoying bluebottle buzzing round his face but he didn't get away easy I think what I'm trying to say Jim is for what my Car is and the cost it show's up alot of more expensive car's hand's down which is what it is all about.I must add though I think there are alot out there who don't know/realise how much of a weapon an R32 powered Corrado is take it from me it is Quick.

[Jim 2]

Oh - absolutely. Once you take a Corrado down the forced induction route or into R32 territory they are a totally different beast :) Had the pleasure of an afternoon with Stealth's VR6 Turbo a few years back and boy that was a mind altering experience! I can't imagine what it must be like driving that chap whose username I forget (RedTyphoon I think?) with the R32 turbo Corrado.. puts out over 500BHP. Utterly bonkers!!

[maff 10]

I've had a good thrash in a v10 modded to 538bhp, it only got really going at about a ton and then it was mental, faster than a lot of Super cars. I'm sure an r32 powered corrado would be awesome, but the corrado is no lightweight at 1240kg. There are plenty of 1250ish kg cars with 250bhp, and it's not all about power to weight as with the corrado, a big capacity engine in any car makes it feel that bit more special, even my 3.0 diesel has an almost v8 noise from inside the car sometimes and from the outside sounds ok for derv

[clumpy1 11]

What this thread need's is video evidence but there is obviously implication's with that such a shame really on way to national day I chased a Focus RS till there were no no's left on the clock and he just breezed away like I was doing 30

[Jim 2]

People have been prosecuted based on video's posted on forums - so that probably wouldn't be the best idea if you value your drivers license!

 

Doesn't surprise me about the Focus RS though. 301BHP as standard and essentially using the same sort of 5 cylinder turbo setup that Audi used to use, and now use again in their RS3 and TT-RS. Looking on Mountune's website they're easily tuneable to either 350 or 375PS..

 

The beauty of driving a regular old VR6 is that they're no match even for modern hot hatches, let alone properly fast stuff so it's a rare day I'll try and take people on and instead just enjoy opening the car up on a quiet stretch of road :)

[maff 10]

I had a good play about 10 years ago with the first focus rs, it was holding me up in third gear in my first vr6:-)

[clumpy1 11]

People have been prosecuted based on video's posted on forums - so that probably wouldn't be the best idea if you value your drivers license!

 

Doesn't surprise me about the Focus RS though. 301BHP as standard and essentially using the same sort of 5 cylinder turbo setup that Audi used to use, and now use again in their RS3 and TT-RS. Looking on Mountune's website they're easily tuneable to either 350 or 375PS..

 

The beauty of driving a regular old VR6 is that they're no match even for modern hot hatches, let alone properly fast stuff so it's a rare day I'll try and take people on and instead just enjoy opening the car up on a quiet stretch of road :)

Totally Jim it is too easy to get caught You probably have the more sensible setup

[maff 10]

People have been prosecuted based on video's posted on forums - so that probably wouldn't be the best idea if you value your drivers license!

 

Doesn't surprise me about the Focus RS though. 301BHP as standard and essentially using the same sort of 5 cylinder turbo setup that Audi used to use, and now use again in their RS3 and TT-RS. Looking on Mountune's website they're easily tuneable to either 350 or 375PS..

 

The beauty of driving a regular old VR6 is that they're no match even for modern hot hatches, let alone properly fast stuff so it's a rare day I'll try and take people on and instead just enjoy opening the car up on a quiet stretch of road :)

 

And me:-) it's definatly not all about the power, recently bought the other half a toyota mr2 roadster with only 138bhp, (but only 900kg) but it's one of the best cars I've ever driven

[Portent 0]

Well I took a look at a 330 Clubsport at the weekend. Unfortunately after a 1.5 hour drive I got there and found a big nail in the wheel (seller didn't seem aware) so I didn't want to drive it and make it worse. But I did have a good look over it and said I'd think about a test drive. I really liked it to be honest. It felt smaller inside than I expected (which is a good thing - I like feeling enclosed) and it certainly felt a well built car. I'm strongly considering arranging another viewing or if that doesn't happen then keeping on the lookout for another.

 

But I got back in the Corrado for the drive home and it did feel absolutely unique and the Recaro's fantastically comfy. It's just such an event driving it. Sadly it's now filthy and needs a wash :( But it's a credit to the car that I was just as happy getting back into it. Small car, big capacity engine, rare, you can't really beat it.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Portent

[BILLCOR 1]

How about a special edition Mk1 TT http://www.scottishvag.net/viewtopic.php?f=207&t=117098

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Really? bmw do value line servicing for the e46, parts are very reasonable, it's no more expensive to run an 'old' bmw over a ford focus these days, ok it helped me having a good friend who has worked for bmw for most of his life but the expensive bmw thing is a myth if you ask me! £99 for an oil change? yes please, lower m tech control arms, stupid money from main dealer but aftermarket meyle hd ones are a third of the price and are better, you just have to do some research on the best place to source parts.

I agree there are loads of 325, 330's all over the place probably because they are a cracking car, really wish i hadn't sold my e30 318is years ago, they are a fortune to buy now.

I'd be looking at a honda s2000, porsche boxster etc over an old tt, its never been a good car to start with whereas the bmw has a handling reputation for a reason, i had an audi s4 once, nice but boring, ttrs looks good and the b7 rs4 is about the only audi i've heard of thats any good after the original quattro, but i'm not biased at all:-D

 

Value Line doesn't extend to things like Air Flow meters, interior plastics / trims or other large, not often changed components. Those items cost huge sums. Try £450+VAT for a retractable load cover for my old 5 series Tourer (why you see so many tourers without load covers). Try £550+VAT for a wiper Mechanism. Try £100 each for ignition coils, etc etc. And don't even ask about replacing recirculating ball steering boxes or A/C parts. This is what I mean about German cars costing you regardless and it just so happens that the 6 cyl ones are more expensive because everything is over-engineered on those and there's 6 of everything. BMW also totally over wheel and tyre their cars, which prematurely wears out control arms. Using like for like parts quality, BMWs *ARE* more money to run than a comparable VAG, no question. And shall we mention the cracking boot floor E46s suffer from?

 

Sure there are cheaper aftermarket parts but you'd be a plum to fit them to a BMW, Ms especially. Ms rely on their chassis being tip top otherwise the handling goes to c0ck. Cheap febi or Meyle arms with the pre-fitted bushes are a false economy as you'll be replacing them again after 2 years.

 

E46s handle OK but in common with virtually all BMWs, there's bugger all feedback and a horrible vagueness on the straight ahead, and the engine is suprisingly flat below 4000rpm for a 3.0. My old 325i E30 felt gutsier low down than the 330s I've driven.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't like E46s at all, except the M3. I'd take an E34 5 series over those any day. They are the last of the properly built BMWs imo.

 

The only BMWs I'd ever own would be an S54 engined Z3M Coupe, an E39 M5, once the big end shells have been done and the rust cured, or a mint E34 M5 Nurburgring edition.

[Portent 0]

How about a special edition Mk1 TT http://www.scottishvag.net/viewtopic.php?f=207&t=117098

 

Can't see it as I'm not a member. What is it and how much? Is it the Quattro Sport as I suspect that will be out of my budget?

 

EDIT: Just signed up to see it and it is indeed a QS. Beyond my budget sadly and also the yearly tax on it is huge.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Portent

[Ruggy 10]

Value Line doesn't extend to things like Air Flow meters, interior plastics / trims or other large, not often changed components. Those items cost huge sums. Try £450+VAT for a retractable load cover for my old 5 series Tourer (why you see so many tourers without load covers). Try £550+VAT for a wiper Mechanism. Try £100 each for ignition coils, etc etc. And don't even ask about replacing recirculating ball steering boxes or A/C parts. This is what I mean about German cars costing you regardless and it just so happens that the 6 cyl ones are more expensive because everything is over-engineered on those and there's 6 of everything. BMW also totally over wheel and tyre their cars, which prematurely wears out control arms. Using like for like parts quality, BMWs *ARE* more money to run than a comparable VAG, no question. And shall we mention the cracking boot floor E46s suffer from?

 

Sure there are cheaper aftermarket parts but you'd be a plum to fit them to a BMW, Ms especially. Ms rely on their chassis being tip top otherwise the handling goes to c0ck. Cheap febi or Meyle arms with the pre-fitted bushes are a false economy as you'll be replacing them again after 2 years.

 

E46s handle OK but in common with virtually all BMWs, there's bugger all feedback and a horrible vagueness on the straight ahead, and the engine is suprisingly flat below 4000rpm for a 3.0. My old 325i E30 felt gutsier low down than the 330s I've driven.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't like E46s at all, except the M3. I'd take an E34 5 series over those any day. They are the last of the properly built BMWs imo.

 

The only BMWs I'd ever own would be an S54 engined Z3M Coupe, an E39 M5, once the big end shells have been done and the rust cured, or a mint E34 M5 Nurburgring edition.

 

This post has scared me a little bit!

Seen as Kev does appear to know his stuff, I'm considering going back to my original plan of going for an 8L version of an Audi S3.

Or is there the possibility of gigantic repair bills with this too?

 

Kev, any input greatly appreciated.

[coullstar 0]

Have to admit Ive really enjoyed the BM's Ive owned over the last few years, 120d, 130i and now 320d touring. Much better to drive than the quivalent Audi's that I tried at the time. Remember doesnt matter how fast you think it is either there is always something faster out there.

 

If you purely bought a car in how much it cost to run you would be buying a Nissan or such like.

[joby 0]

Lets not forget if you enjoy modding your cars The TT is an excellent choice as its easy and reasonably cheap to mod and turn it into a fast very capable car, a set of cookbots, and R32 arbs will dial out the understeer and sharpen up the steering decent shocks and lowered springs, a blue haldex controller, and a decent set of tyres will make the TT very competent in all weathers, coupled with a decent remap, stage 1, will see 265 270 brake and bags of torque,the interiors are still leading in quality and there are no rattles from mine, most rattles come from the parcel shelf which is an easy fix they are very comfortable for every day driving and for long distance as well, vag com will scan for any faults as well, mine has been faultless and is bags of fun fast and surprisingly economical if driven sensibly by the Mrs

[coullstar 0]

I agree however if you get a better car in the first place you wont mod as much. I had my 130i for 6 months and didnt touch a thing purely as it didnt need it and if you know me that bloody good.

[Bullfinch 0]

I owned a Mk1 TT 225hp for 3 years from 2005-08. It was plenty fast enough for me and it stuck to the road like glue. Only issue as others have mentioned is if something goes wrong then £££'s are spent. One of my Xenon headlamps had the starter/firing unit fail and so a new unit was required. To fit these you have to remove the front bumper - anyway it was done at a main dealer and part plus labour came to £900. Ouch:(