g lader whine

[richman711 10]

Hi guys

 

After around 10k miles since its last rebuild I've started to notice a whine from the engine bay, now after a bit of prodding with a screw driver of my ear I've come to the conclusion it's the g lader, and the pulley side bearing is exactly where the noise is coming from.

 

Guess this spells the near end of my g lader bearings?

 

I suspect it's been caused by a over tighten belt, I run a 68 mm pulley with a standard belt as the car appears to have a tensionor cap?

 

Cheers kyle

[16VG60 1]

Given your 6PK belt set up and the modified tensioner in use, I would suggest the cause of your bearing failure is unlikely to be an over tensioned belt. These tensioners are not able to generate such load as to over tension the belt, this is part of their design. Yes this tensioner is modified, Jabbasport used this configuration to overcome the loss of belt tension, when using a reduced diameter charger pulley, and it has worked well over many years on a good number of G60 engines. Your problem with early failure of a drive end bearing could be due to a number of reasons, some of these being, oil quality, oil supply, bearing quality and fit in the casing. If indeed this is charger bearing noise / failure then indeed you do require to address this fault immediately. Be advised however that a great number of bearings are located in this area and all can resonate through the castings. Today I diagnosed faulty alternator bearings where indeed the charger was thought to be at fault. If you require a second opinion or further assistance please feel welcome to get in touch.

[richman711 10]

Hi John

 

Cheers for the reply, I'm 100% sure that sadly the noise is from the g lader, and from the pulley end of the super charger. The altenator is only a week old but I did check it and is nice and quiet.

 

Ah well that's puzzled me as to what's caused the failure then, I was suspicious of the tensioner but that was it.

 

It does get driven pretty hard but has oil changes every 5 and all ways warmed up before I open her up.

 

Guess I've been pretty unlucky:(

[16VG60 1]

Sounds like you are a victim of the law according to sod! Charger rebuild it is then. Swap hats moment, can we help ? ;)

[richman711 10]

Hi again guys

 

Ok so I took the charger apart today to have a look at a possible cause.

 

First I've noticed that the inlet inner oil seal has clearly been passing oil ( although I haven't noticed any smoke), the inlet bearing is also completely shot, nasty rumble to it:(

 

One thing I am worried about is that with the main shaft still in the inlet side I can slide the shaft in and out about 5 mm, and if I lock the bearing I can spin the shaft inside the bearing. So guessing the bearing has lock at some point and now the main shaft is worn:((

[16VG60 1]

I don't know how you want to progress on your findings, or indeed if my opinion is welcome, but we do keep a range of G60 spare parts to rectify situations like this. So if this charger was in our care we would be able to fit a replacement shaft and bearing. The casing would need to be checked to ensure it could take a new bearing. The worst situation would be if the bearing had seized and spun within the casing effectively making it oversized and no longer able to secure the bearing fit.

[Riley 0]

Damn, that's unlucky mate. Just out of interest, is your tensioner cap adjustable?

 

I run an adjustable one on mine (Blue anodized top) and you could if you wanted to, actually make the belt way too tight. That aside, it just sounds like you've been unlucky with the oil seal popping/bearing damage.

 

Hope you can sort it as painlessly as possible mate. Worth having it inspected.:thumbleft:

[richman711 10]

Hi guys.

 

John your opinion is more than welcome, and actually preferable. Thank you for the offer, at the moment I'm a bit stuck due to funding so I'm going to consider all my options before doing any thing tho, Tbh I'm not sure if I even want to use a g-lader again.

 

And yes Riley the cap on mine is adjustable, the eyelet on top can be adjusted for length.

I do have it let at its least tensioned setting tho as I was worried about too much belt tension

 

Cheers

 

kyle

[16VG60 1]

Hi Kyle, thanks for your feedback. It's sometimes very difficult to be an enthusiast and an operator of a VAG specialist business at the same time, whilst contributing and offering ones thoughts on the forum. I didn't want to be thrusting our JMR business front upon you, but by the same token knowing that we could offer exactly what you required. If you would like to discuss options, including those without a G Lader, then I am only too happy to have a chat over the phone. Have been modifying Corrado and in particular the G60 for a while now and if that experience is of interest to you then all the better.

[richman711 10]

Not a problem, you will be the first person I contact when I need a bit of advice.

 

Last night i noticed rust dust around the outer inlet seal, im wonfering if the bearing has been oil starved. One thing I will ask tho is how is the main shaft designed to be removed from the inlet, I belive there is a circlip behind the inner seal?

 

Cheers

kyle

[16VG60 1]

The m

[16VG60 1]

The main shaft is not held in place by any clip, moreover it is secured in place by being pressed into the drive end bearing and the support derived from being located into the exhaust end bearing. To remove the main shaft from the drive end bearing, remove the balance weight retaining e clip, then slide off the balance weight. Remove the balance weight woodruff key, you can then remove the displacer. The main shaft drive pulley must be removed along with the timing belt and it's drive pulley. Next remove the larger woodruff key. You are now able to press out the main shaft from the outer end pressing towards the inside. Be careful not to allow the released main shaft fall with its weight onto the Apex seal channels, as it will cause instant damage to the casing. Use only brass press tools to push out the main shaft as steel items run the risk of bruising the machined parts. I hope this helps.

[richman711 10]

Cheers again John.

 

Shafts out and there's not actually any signs of it spinning inside the bearing, it can be just slid through the bearing no problem tho.

 

is the bearing not held tight on the sides of the inner race once all the pully is on and tight?

 

Cheers

[16VG60 1]

The shaft will often be able to be pulled out by hand from the drive end bearing. This is not a problem so long as there is no slack laterally. I'm loosing you a little with your interpretation of components, but I think I'm translating events ok so far :). The main shaft is secured in position from excessive end float by the 6PK drive pulley being tightened onto the main shaft with the central securing bolt. So if your drive end bearing is not spinning within the casting housing then all should be free moving as designed, but worn all the same and requiring renewal.

[richman711 10]

Hi John.

 

Yeah sorry I'm rushing my explanations a bit. I'll try be a bit clearer. It's Looking up now

that I've got my head around its design.

 

Basically with the the main shaft completely bare ( no key ways etc), the shaft can be slid in the bearing no problem with no lateral movement once in position.

 

The drive end bearing ( although I don't think it's the correct fag bearing as I thought they had a plastic cage) is tight in the inlet housing so it would appear all I need is a rebuild kit.

 

I'm yet to remove the drive end bearing but once I have then I can be sure.

 

Cheers

 

kyle

[16VG60 1]

I would hope that your drive end bearing wasn't of the plastic caged type as this would make it OEM specification and inferior to the steel caged upgrade bearing that we use and offers better wear characteristics and increased RPM capability. It would also suggest the charger had never been rebuilt up until now.

As to the rebuild this is where the advice train has to stop, as I have spent the last twenty years perfecting this process, and to hand over all my experience would be fool hardy. This is the point I spoke of earlier where my knowledge as VAG specialist comes into conflict with my place to support fellow enthusiasts. Stripping the unit is one factor, rebuilding it however is another and if not done correctly you will find yourself no better off at all. Folks all too often believe this process to be simple and that is the mistake. Yes the engineering is relatively straight forward, but a lack of familiarity or indeed an oversight in the process will cause the most dramatic failure. I'll leave you to decide how you prefer to proceed.

[richman711 10]

No problem, I certainly don't expect you to give away part of your trade on a public forum.

 

Cheers for your help tho:)

 

One thing I will drop in tho is can you supply rebuild kits?

[16VG60 1]

I could but would rather have a phone conversation first. Can you call me tommorrow?

[16VG60 1]

Hi Kyle, have you sent your supercharger to JMR for my attention? Only reason I ask is that someone has sent us a supercharger but not included any paperwork with the parcel to indicate the senders address or contact details? Could you please contact me ASAP to confirm either way. Thank you

[richman711 10]

Hi John.

 

Sorry missed you last reply. no that charger isn't mine, mines still in I'm bits:(

 

While I have you, could you confirm that the main pulley bearing is a 6304 and c3 rated?

 

Took mine out and it's only c1. Also noticed the apex seals on the outlet have shrunk.

 

Cheers

 

Kyle

[16VG60 1]

Hi Kyle, the drive end bearing on the main shaft is a 6304 C3, which is the higher speed rated steel caged upgrade on the OEM item. As for Apex seal shrinkage, this is possible if they are very old and of the original specification. The other reason for one thinking the Apex seals had shrunk is that they had been poorly installed. These seals are typically supplied over length and require to be accurately cut down to precisely fit the Apex channel. If these seal are fitted too short then the oscillating action of the internals will,cause the Apex seal to be repeatedly driven into the channel end stop, in turn wear the end stop away and allowing the Apex seal to be displaced with potentially terminal results.

[richman711 10]

Hi John.

 

Cheers again:)

 

For some reason mine as a nke 6304 9aaec1, its steel caged but the c3 bearings I've seen before have always said c3 after the size.

 

Not sure if I've been stung with inferior bearings.

 

I suspected that was the case with the apex seals

[16VG60 1]

That bearing spec is not familiar, it could be checked out through a bearing specialist, but it would be best to go with 6304 C3 and be done with it.