Stripped Spark plug :(

[kebabman 0]

Was removing the (very stuck) spark plugs on my VR this afternoon to give them a clean and check they're condition, firstly those plug leads are a crap design! Do VW have a special tool to remove them or something? They're so deep and hard to pull off, feels like you're going to tear the lead from the back of the connector! :shock: Anyway, after much struggling i managed to get out plugs 1-5 out, got to plug 6 and and liek the others it was stuck but then it suddenly came free really easily....only to my horror when i lifted it out i only had half a plug! :cry:

 

Comparing it to the others, i've got the ceramic electrode, but the thread and the two metal electrodes attached to it are still very much stuck in the head! How the hell am i going to get that out?! I've used an M12 tap and some thread lock to remove plugs before but these are so deep looks really hard, i'm worried about snapping the tap off in there and making the situation worse :(

 

So....Suggestions? Cost estimations for getting the garage to get it out for me? Do you think they'd be willing to drill it out and re-tap the thread in-situ? Or is this going to be a head off job? :cry:

 

Have since been told my a mate that it's important to warm the engine before removing plugs on a ally head....thought they seemed hella tight, feel like a total twat now :(

 

Cheers, (a very pissed off) Alex

[Roger Blassberg 0]

yes, there is a special tool for detaching the HT lead cap from the plug, either a cheap and nasty plastic one which has a home attached to the bonnet support strut, or a more substantial metal one (apparently. I have the aforementioned plastic one....). Anyway, it's to prevent pulling the cap off the cable. Sounds as though the ceramic insulator of your plug has come away, leaving the threaded base of the plug in the head; this shouldn't make it impossible to unscrew the base, because the hexagonal bit is still there.

 

Maybe it's tight, but it sounds as though it should still come out cleanly; a good deep socket is what you need. Give the recess a good blowout with compressed air before you undo it to get any bits out which might otherwise fall into the cylinder. It's much too early to start thinking about drilling and tapping.

 

Have a beer, leave it for a while and then come back to it. Sorry if that sounds condescending, but it usually works.....

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[corradovr6sc 0]

I wouldn't warm the engine as you could strip the threads in the alloy but you should apply copper grease to the plug threads to prevent this.

[kebabman 0]

Cheers for the advice guys, The plug has sheared in two where the hexagonal bolt attaches to the thread, so i have the whole plug....minus the thread! Hence there is no bolt to get it out with, really not sure what to do.....have been told it would be best to take the head off as its a deep hole and will be impossible to get all the swarf out which could get down the side of the piston, which i know isn't going to be good.....what to do? :?

[PhatVR6 0]

head off only I'm afraid, bad luck there....

[kebabman 0]

Local VW specialist thinks he will be able to remove it with a stud extractor, think i should risk letting him, or just bite the bullet and take the head off? Never taken the plugs out on this car before, wish i hadn't bothered trying now (thank previous owner!) , although i guess they would've had to have come out at some point.... *sigh*

[Rpmayne 0]

Don't know how a stud extractor is going to get the plug out, unless he's going to drill and tap the plug with an opposite thread, screw a long piece of stud then use the extractor to unscrew it. Main danger is getting swarf on the piston I would have thought, or drilling the head spark plug thread by mistake. That's if theres even enough meat inside the plug to get a thread and stud in.

 

Head off is easier for the spark plug removal, but you're going to get into.. while the heads off, why don't you... If your VW specialist has been good in the past I'd probably let him try. If it doesn't work then take the head off, last resort like.

 

Harsh luck, hope it goes ok.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

That sounds nasty.

 

OK, brainstormings are as follows; Is there a clear path past the remains into the combustion chamber? If so, I suppose you could bring the piston to TDC on the compression stroke (both valves closed)and push somthing like a small piece of cloth into it the combustion chamber to catch the bits, break out / extract the remains and then vacuum out the swarf. Fiddly, risky, probably complete and absolute b.s. given that it is all deep down the recess.

 

On second thoughts, look on it as an opportunity to take it off and give the head an overhaul. It makes a big difference to the overall smooth-running of the engine, (and to your bank balance, I'm afraid)

 

I've never heard of a plug shearing off like that. I wonder if there is a helicoil in there from a previously stripped thread, which has jammed the plug in. I do hope it turns out to be something unusual like that because I would hate to think that it's a run-of-the-mill problem, one which we might all face at some time.

 

Finally, what is the accepted wisdom - should plugs be undone hot or cold?

Linear thermal expansion coefficient of steel = 16 E-6 / K, and for aluminium = 23 E-6/ K. So Aluminium expands about 1.5 times more than steel and the tapped hole will expand relative to the plug as it gets hotter, relaxing its grip. So that's it - do it hot.

 

Good luck, Kebabman

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Rpmayne 0]

Just been reading a few help pages, and the dis-similar metals of aluminium and steel can teld to 'weld' themselves together if some anti-seize compound hasn't been used. A few people have had this problem (google search), and a few go on about an 'EZ-out' extractor tool. Probably something like the reverse thread tool on the link below:

 

http://www.gandmtools.com/photos%20251-300/0300.html

 

No drilling, screw it in the leftover part of the plug until its tight then it should start undoing the plug... Is the theory.

[Henny 0]

yup, they're EZ-outs... 8)

 

Has the bit of the plug you got out got the central electrode in it still? The reason I ask is that if it has, you'll have a clear path through the center of the thread into the cylinder and an EZ-out (or similar) will almost certainly get it out if used correctly with no swarf being made to contaminate things...

 

The only bit I don't know is how deep the plugs are in a VR having never worked on one, and this could hamper things if it's too deep to get an EZ-out in... :|

 

Good luck anyway, sounds like you deserve some... ;) 8)

[kebabman 0]

Thanks for the moral support guys :)

 

A friend mentioned EZ-outs as well but didn't think it would work as the plugs are too deep on the VR, I'm guessing they're at least 25cm deep although i haven't actually measured.. Whats the maximum depth an EZ-out will work to? I've got the whole plug bar the thread, the ceramic centre electrode came out fine, so there is a whole straight through to the cylinder....

 

So annoying how such a stupid thing can cripple the whole car, it still runs but it sprays fuel-air mix about 15ft in the air so i don't think i'll be driving it! ;)

[Rpmayne 0]

You may be able to use a tap wrench long enough to hold the EZ-out extractor, only problem is the chuck might be too wide to fit down the spark plug channel. Will have to see what you can get hold of, a local machine shop to you might lend you one for a small fee. Or find a socket and extensions which will fit the extractor.

[RadoAds 0]

Surely you should try to remove the plug with the EZ-out or similar tool or let your local specialist do it for you, unless your a millionaire and not telling us, you sounded as though you werent confident in taking out the plugs let alone taking off the head so what you gonna lose in trying to remove the plug, the only thing I can see you losing is a huge bill for a head job if you succeed :lol:

[kebabman 0]

Lol i have to admit to being a bit of a 'newb' to the ABV engine, but I'm alright with a spanner in general, just this engine is quirky! Being an ex-pug man I'm used to inline fours alright, you know how it is, you get used to working on a particular engine :oops:

 

The only thing I'm worried about is snapping a tap off in there and making the situation ten times worse, getting taps etc isnt a problem as my uncle is a machineist, but i wouldn't like to try and drill a hardened steel tool bit out from an ally head even with it off the car!

 

It's gone off to the garage this afternoon to see if they can extract it, if not, well i guess I've got a lot of learning to do :lol:

[coolrado 0]

i have a set of those easy out stud extractors they should work ok, i have only used the smaller ones to extract broken exhaust manifold studs on my old mr2 and im not sure the biggest one would fit a spark plug

it would only be a case of using a socket on an extension bar the right size for the stud extractor so it shouldnt matter how deep they are and it would probably be worth drowning whats left of the thread with a releasing oil to let it work its way into the thread overnight

the set of extractors only cost 10 quid

[Henny 0]

the worst that can happen is that you need to take the head off if the reverse tap snaps in the plug.... so you've nothing to loose by trying that method.... ;) If the tap does break and you take the head off, you'll be able to get at it from the inside of the head so there'll be plenty there to get at it with... 8)

[Scruffythefirst 0]

If the reverse tap snaps it'll be even worse than it is now, even with the head off. It'll most likely have to be drilled out which is nigh on impossible with hardened steel taps / easy outs

[dazzyvr6 0]

If the reverse tap snaps it'll be even worse than it is now, even with the head off. It'll most likely have to be drilled out which is nigh on impossible with hardened steel taps / easy outs

 

i wouldnt say that,there are loads of drill bits now that will easily drill them out

[kebabman 0]

Its out! :D

 

Local VW specialist got it out in under an hour, and replaced all the other plugs at the same time. He used what looked like a thick backwards screw, but with a hexagonal back so you could fit a socket over it, not sure if it was an EZ-out, he called it a 'snap-on' or something....did the trick anyway! He said he needed a 3 foot wrench to get enough leverage on the thread to get it out, which also made me feel a bit better about snapping the plug :lol:

 

So....£102, including towing the car from my house, getting the snapped plug out and fitting 6 new plugs, I'm happy with that :)

 

Also having got the car back i realise that the reason I found it so hard to get the HT leads off is that my plastic tool thing is missing, wheres the best place to go for one of these? Stealer only?

 

Cheers for all the advice lads! 8)

[Henny 0]

8) yup that sounds like a "Snap on" branded version of an EZ out... 8)

 

Glad that you've got it sorted mate.... it's always nice when you can find a garage with good tools and the knowledge and experience to use 'em properly and for a reasonable cost! :D 8)

 

VAG sells a nice metal (made by Hazet) plug lead removal tool which is supposed to be very good... Hazet Part No. T10029

 

You may also find that the plastic one is in the spare wheel instead of being clipped onto the bonnet stay... ;)

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Good news indeed !! That seems like a bargain price; did you you have the new plugs lubricated ??

 

My local specialist gave me one a plug lead detatcher (yes, GAVE), but I think they are available from VAG.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Guest]

My plastic one was on the bar for the jack, in the boot. only realised thats what it was when I pulled the leads out by hand, and thought to myself "that looks the same shape as the plastic thing in my boot :oops:

 

Which specialist did you use mate? I presume it was one in Oxford? Always good to know a good local garage.

 

Regarding the Hazet tool, you might have some trouble getting one in the area, I tried Motorworld on the Iffley rd and they wouldn't sell me one, "sorry, we can't supply workshop tools to the general public". I also tried Keiths in Aylesbury, same response :roll:

[kebabman 0]

It was Farmoor Garage, just down the Eynsham road from Botley, just couple of old guys but they seem to really know what they are doing! Half the price of motorworld as well 8)

 

They put some slip on the plugs to stop them sticking again, so hopefully, if i manage to track down this tool, I'll be able to get them out myself next time :lol:

 

Did you try VW Motorworld kidlington?

 

p.s. my car was in for a service at the above stealer last week, and they clearly didn't even remove the plugs to inspect them, i thought this would've been part of a 12 month/10,000mile service!? :|

[Kevin Bacon 5]

[Regarding the Hazet tool' date= you might have some trouble getting one in the area, I tried Motorworld on the Iffley rd and they wouldn't sell me one, "sorry, we can't supply workshop tools to the general public". I also tried Keiths in Aylesbury, same response :roll:[/quote]

 

You can get the Hasbeen tool from VW dude. Part no T0009 I think.

 

There's a couple more makers of plug lead extraction tools too, but can't remember the names of them.

[Guest]

I know the part number Kev, but as I explained above, I went to the two nearest stealers and neither would do it for public sale. One told be it was company policy not to. Just a case of luck of the draw I thnik, i'm sure I could have talked them round, but didn't need to as I found the placcy one.

 

Didn't try Kidlington no, might be worth a try though :) tell me if you get lucky.

 

how much did you pay for the service then? I have had nothing but problems every time i've taken the car to a stealers, so i'm very reluctant to take it again. Just stick with 'John and Steve autos' in Botley, I intend to keep the car so don't need any stealer stamps.

 

btw my mate lives down the eynsham road with a C, he has a VR and lives on Fogoor rd (think thats it?) (just as you turn off for eynsham from Botley). its parked off the road though, as he's having a bit of work down (cams etc).