rattly knocking noise from mid to top end on a G60

[Henny 0]

...coming from between 3 and 4...

 

I was driving home reasonably quickly when I felt a slight judder, slowed down to pull off the road to go to Tescos when she felt "flat", dipped the clutch and she stalled....

 

She's not used any oil or water and still starts first turn of the key, she's also spot on with cam timing so it's not jumped a tooth or anything like that...

 

Idle is sweet and stable, just noisy, supercharger and alternator are fine...

 

Anyone got any thoughts on what it could be? (just fishing for ideas before I start taking her apart again... :| )

[stevemac 0]

Hope you get it sorted Ian - you ain't having much luck at the mo.

 

Hopefully you'll just have a badly knackered cam follower/tappet although sounds more like camshaft problems, from what you describe :(

 

How much headwork (bearings, valves, etc) did you have done ??

[Henny 0]

Well, I've just been out and ripped off the cam cover to have a look see what's going on... fuctifino what's wrong with it... :?

 

Cam is OK, cam caps are all OK and tightened correctly (even checked 'em for Torque...) Ran it briefly without the cam cover off and it all looked OK but still sounded dreadfull (louder 'cos no cover on this time) Definately getting oil up there too... Took the plugs out and all 4 pistons look the same, nice and uniform colour, no dents or shiney bits etc... even the plugs look a nice uniform colour too... :|

 

Any ideas? Think I'm gonna get a set of followers tomorrow and sling 'em in just to see if it makes any difference... otherwise it's a head and sump off job to get at the pistons.... :(

[h100vw 0]

I'd confirm the oil pressure before spending money!!

Gavin

[dr_mat 0]

Yeah, hasn't your engine block got 250k on it? Did you ever swap the oil pump?

[G60Dan 0]

I'd guess at lifters

[h100vw 0]

He started with a 1H block from a Rallye.

Gavin

[kongo127 0]

Old aged lifters make noise, seems like knocking.

Is my case the noisy lifters are intermitent.

When they make noise and the car is at idle the engine becomes very lumpy.

When the noise stops, it gets a more regular idle.

I am about to change them soon too!

[h100vw 0]

Hennys motor has about 3K on it. He wouldn't have left the old lifters in given the amount of money he has spent on that engine.

Gavin

[G60Dan 0]

check them for marking. If they are 3k old, they should look like new. If they have any worrying marks on them problem found.

[dr_mat 0]

Henny has gone very quiet... (Let's hope his engine has too.)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I hope it's not the big ends.....

[scruffydubbers 0]

i was thinking big ends, from the noise, wounder if they got damaged when your oil and water mixed. :?

 

but when you said it was flat i would think it was more to do with the valves or followers

 

lets hope its not to serious :?

[steveo29 0]

i had new tappets wear funny in a few thousand miles....the tops had worn alot for no reason???

 

bung a cheep oil pressure gauge on first

[dr_mat 0]

Still no word from henny on this thread....

[Henny 0]

sorry, been working away from the office today and have only just got home... :|

 

the engine was ALL new... 1H block with new internals including bearings, crank, con-rods, pistons, rings (duh!) seals, gaskets, pumps (both oil and water) and bolts... the head was rebuilt just before the crank bolt sheared off (which was the catalyst for this rebuild) but was rebuilt again anyway as there was the possibility of damage from pistons hitting valves. All new tappets were fitted too... the only bit of the engine which remained untouched was the cam, although that was checked for wear, and the cam caps were checked to make sure they weren't worn and were within tollerance...

 

I did not cut ANY corners with this rebuild and nothing was left unchanged or checked....

 

The engine has 7K miles on her at the moment. The problem is DEFINATELY not the bottom end bearings, you can hear that the noise is at the top end of the block around cylinders 3 and 4... when it first went I thought it was the charger having blown, but I've checked it out and that's fine, as is the alternator and the noise is at the other end of the engine anyway...

 

Oil pressure is still good, and it's not used any oil or water (my autometer gauges sender was finally fitted rather rapidly last night!... :oops: :lol: )

 

Trust me when I say it's not the cam followers... it sounds like something inside has broken... possibly a little end bearing or a piston or pin itself... :(

 

I'll let you know when I find out what it is... the head's coming off Friday night, along with the sump and the pistons and rods will be removed on Saturday morning... :|

 

Thanks for all the ideas though, keep 'em coming...

8)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well in true forensic style, the answer is in the question....

 

No fluid loss

No combustion issues

Ancilleries are good

Pressures are good

Timing is OK

Valve gear is OK

Pistons are OK

 

So what's left?

 

Bearings.....

 

I only mentioned big ends because 3 and 4 are the first to run dry during very hard left hand cornering and you said you were driving quickly but as you say, no expense spared, therefore a baffle and / or windage tray wouldn't be left off your build-up list 8)

 

Anyway.... keep us posted!

[scruffydubbers 0]

just out of interest have you tried a compression check?

 

you say the car feels flat, how much power has been lost?

[Henny 0]

it felt like a small boost leak, so only a little dip in performance... I dipped the clutch as I was pulling off the road anyway and the engine stalled... I then stopped and had a look around the engine but couldn't see anything (that's paranoia for ya! ;) ) so tried to start it... she just turned over normally for a few seconds but didn't fire, so I whipped off the cam belt cover to check the belt hadn't jumped or anything daft, but all was well... tried it again and it fired up perfectly but with the knocking rattle... :|

 

I've not driven it since 'cos the last thing I need is for whatever it is to let go completely and write off the block... :?

 

Head and sump are coming off tomorrow and the pistons and rods will be taken out to have a looksee... :| that'll show what the problem is at least.... :roll:

[h100vw 0]

Start with the sump. Cheaper gasket. :mrgreen: Undo the bolts on 3 and 4 see if there is slack in the little ends. And obviously damage to the big ends.

Gavin

 

PS I have a set of big end bolts, a set of rods with bolts and if things go really bad, a crank in my garage.

 

I can bring any of them to work tomorrow if you need them.

[G60Jet 1]

I´m with Gavin on this and get a baffle put in there, the VW one comes with a gasket btw.

[Henny 0]

Start with the sump. Cheaper gasket. :mrgreen: Undo the bolts on 3 and 4 see if there is slack in the little ends. And obviously damage to the big ends.

Gavin

 

PS I have a set of big end bolts, a set of rods with bolts and if things go really bad, a crank in my garage.

 

I can bring any of them to work tomorrow if you need them.

 

Cheers Gav, that's a bloody good point mate, I'll do it that way around and see if I can spot anything untoward before having to get a new head gasket as I've already got a spare sump gasket kicking around (don't ask! ;) )

 

I'll let you know about the rods and bolts, but the crank would be no use as I'm using a non-G60 crank to get to 1940cc... ;)

 

G60Jet, it's already got a baffle in there... ;)

[G-Lader 0]

good luck with this @ the w/end...................Darren's just done the head off, sump off to discover a 'slight' problem with one of my pistons! :(

 

From what I gather the problem is easily sorted as long as the block is ok :|

[olly elworthy 0]

G-Lader, ouch so thets your piston in general chat,, :shock: at least its in the best place to be sorted, 8)

good luck with yours henny :wink:

[h100vw 0]

Any word of this one yet Henny??