To 4wd or Not to 4wd

[CoxyLaad 0]

now then,

I am having a moment of indecision here.

My mate is telling me that putting 4wd on my car is effectively a waste of time apart from in poor weather conditions.

 

namely - it will still understeer with 4wd and it will not offer any great advantage.

 

So I am thinking of sourcing an ATB diff for the 02M box and running it in 2wd mode to see how it handles the power.

 

I am hoping for 300bhp with the charger and a few other mods so the diff will have its work cut out, but apart from off the mark I am not so sure.....

 

Any opinions will be greafully recieved.

Those who have converted to 4wd what difference did it make to the drive of the car?

[gibber 0]

It wont grip for peanuts.

 

Decided to take mine to work this morning, over 250 brake through the front wheels, slightly damp conditions and I cudnt get it to grip at full throttle in 3rd! very annoying and will be sorted soon!

 

Phats 190 ish brake beat me on the strip! I just cudnt get mine to grip!

[CoxyLaad 0]

well phats car is only 2 wheel drive, it has a pelequin diff fitted to it.

but its definately got a lot more than 190 brake to it - or should I say 'had' more than 190brake to it. I could beat it on my mountain bike now lol

[ruffy 0]

I've got over 320 bhp now.. a atb and some dunlop sp's grips like a monkey with a banana.. sort out your tyres and you'll do okay .. its not as clinical as 4wd of the line though.. but i'm happy with it .. I'm not really intrested in 0-60 sprints.. imo

[Henny 0]

I've got (well, I did have before I stripped the engine again) around 260Bhp put down through a Quaife and modded G60 box... Jim'll testify that it was gripping OK at Brunters with standing water on the track with it's 205/40/16 A539s! ;) 8) :mrgreen:

 

A 7 second 0-60 and a 13.6 second 1/4 mile in the wet (read as BIG puddles!) will also testify that you CAN get over 250bhp onto the road effectively with some decent tyres and an LSD.... 8)

 

Oh, and remember Gibber, with your car as low as it is, the handling and initial get up and go are gonna be affected as well as your grip on the road... :|

[PhatVR6 0]

13.6!!! since when? have you fitted a vr since I was last on or something?

 

coxy, fit the 4wd you soft cock.

[Jim 2]

I've got (well, I did have before I stripped the engine again) around 260Bhp put down through a Quaife and modded G60 box... Jim'll testify that it was gripping OK at Brunters with standing water on the track with it's 205/40/16 A539s! ;) 8) :mrgreen:

 

A 7 second 0-60 and a 13.6 second 1/4 mile in the wet (read as BIG puddles!) will also testify that you CAN get over 250bhp onto the road effectively with some decent tyres and an LSD.... 8)

 

Oh, and remember Gibber, with your car as low as it is, the handling and initial get up and go are gonna be affected as well as your grip on the road... :|

 

Didn't have any trouble stopping either! Think I still have the burn from the seatbelts as you demonstrated a 120MPH -> 0MPH nearly full bore braking procedure. If anything was going to sell Brembo's to me, that was it!!

 

But yeah - your car had excellent performance that day.. I seriously don't remeber you struggling for traction at many points despite the track being soaked.

 

Speaking of which, the little article should be in this months incoming PVW. I can't wait!!

[biggerbigben 0]

fit it.... :evil:

[CoxyLaad 0]

Thanks for the advice lads,

 

I am going to implement a phased approach to the end result of my car.

 

1. Get it on the road in basic 2wd normally aspirated.

2. Get used to the power its got.

3. Fit the supercharger :twisted:

4. See how it copes.

5. decided whether a quaife diff will do the job or go full 4wd (or both!)

 

 

with that in mind the car should be road worthy this year!!! yippee!

[PhatVR6 0]

I might just have to leave mine off the road then and 4wd it now just to p1ss you off ;-)

[trendy tramp 0]

I've got (well, I did have before I stripped the engine again) around 260Bhp put down through a Quaife and modded G60 box... Jim'll testify that it was gripping OK at Brunters with standing water on the track with it's 205/40/16 A539s! ;) 8) :mrgreen:

 

A 7 second 0-60 and a 13.6 second 1/4 mile in the wet (read as BIG puddles!) will also testify that you CAN get over 250bhp onto the road effectively with some decent tyres and an LSD.... 8)

 

Oh, and remember Gibber, with your car as low as it is, the handling and initial get up and go are gonna be affected as well as your grip on the road... :|

 

i can vouch for that :)

 

and then there's mine - it pi55ed it down at brunters every time i went out and it gripped and gripped and gripped. that's in a car where we've purposely moved weight from the front to the centre of the car to assist cornering. and it never had any tractions problems at all - and that's also with a std diff! Just a very stiff shell, no rubber, lowered engine and careful setting of the geometry

 

tt

[theRuler 0]

go with the 4wd mate.

[K-rado 0]

Sorry for my crude 2 and 6, (not overly teci minded) but I remember reading a full artical in a mag many years ago. (circa 7) about this chap in Germany who was running 2 VR6 engines (1 front/1 Back seats) in his C. The artical cought my eye at the time becacse his VR was Black (as was mine) and had huge Crome Alloys that looked like submerine propellers.

It all worked of a Golf rally drive train but he said he would never take her out in the wet. (No wipers you see).

Think he was afraid if the SKIDS on the Leather seats. :lol:

K

[CoxyLaad 0]

thats different again - I'm not one for the twin engined route (unless they are twin motorbike engines)

 

OK then so most people like the idea of 4wd then.

 

Question:

Would a 4wd car be as quick as a 2wd car on a track in the dry?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I suppose a lot of it is down to how well the 4x4 setup is configured. Subarus understeer like a bar steward round a dry track, so much so a Focus RS annilihates it !! Wouldn't fare so well against an Evo 8 though.....and that's the difference between quality 4x4 and rubbish 4 x 4.

[K-rado 0]

Think you have to consider the weight deferential factor. 4x4 drive trains are heavey mothers and not to mention the stress your motor/clutch will have to endure on the 90% time your 4x4 is not been used. They tried the 4x4 thing in F1 many years ago with no success. Rally X cars eg Quattro (hail the great) and the Scooby swears by the 4x4. think on a normal championship course and variable track day conditions, I would stick with the less complex/economical option of 2 wheel drive.

 

K

[CoxyLaad 0]

well I know people go on about this massive weight difference but to me the weight and its effects of inertia only really affect the car on take off, and guess what 4wd cars are great at? launching yes.

 

I believe that a 4wd car will hold greater corner speed due to the fact that the power been put through the front wheels is greatly reduce, so the wheels will not start spinning (the main cause of understeer)

 

A good diff on a fwd car maximises the power delivery to the 2 front wheels, but a 4wd doubles the available rubber to put the power through)

[biggerbigben 0]

humm.. corrado 4wd...

[GazzaG60 0]

Think its time to produce some power graphs and Quarter mile slips if you gonna boast about 260hp and 13.6 ET Henny :wink:

 

back on topic

 

Whos done it.

 

What are we looking at part wise and costs. is the Gearbox the hard bit to find?

 

Whats the difference to insurance premiums if you tell them (which im sure we all do).

 

Given that we live in england and i live just outside manchester it rains around 250 days per year. it may well be worth it. Im thinking about selling the C otherwise as this place is stacked with Subs and most are over 300hp. given a dry day they are on catch-up but otherwise im on a loser everytime.

[Henny 0]

Think its time to produce some power graphs and Quarter mile slips if you gonna boast about 260hp and 13.6 ET Henny :wink:

Get the new PVW which is coming out shortly... that should have my 1/4 mile, 0-60, 0-100, fastest speed (139.8mph) and 100-0 times in it... 8) BHP figures are just an estimate based on the Stealth roller session when I was a tooth out on the cam with a pretty bad boost leak... As soon as the engine is re-bedded in with the new pistons and shells, I'll be getting some figures from the next group roller session to see how she compares with some other cars... 8)

 

Given that we live in england and i live just outside manchester it rains around 250 days per year. it may well be worth it. Im thinking about selling the C otherwise as this place is stacked with Subs and most are over 300hp. given a dry day they are on catch-up but otherwise im on a loser everytime.

 

With an LSD fitted, a good Corrado with 250ish BHP will keep up with a scooby of around 300bhp even when wet on the roads purely due to the extra drag of the scoob's permanent 4x4 system... Add to that the fact that scoobs get somewhat understeer-ey in the wet and it'll take a GOOD confident driver of a 300BHP scooby to embarrass a well tuned 250ishBHP G60 or VR6 with an LSD anywhere there's anything mildly twisty! Trust me, I know from experience! ;) 8)

 

The A34 to Congleton is great fun for irritating the hell outta scoobies! ;) :lol:

[Jim 2]

Aye - the man speaks the truth. I was there on the day, and the proof will be in the forthcoming PVW :)

[gibber 0]

Oh, and remember Gibber, with your car as low as it is, the handling and initial get up and go are gonna be affected as well as your grip on the road...

 

This is true it is crying out for a diff and I am still on a standard box. My wheel geometry is as it should be tho so should be getting the same grip as every one else, but the stiffness would make it easier to loose traction.

But as I said before it dont grip for peanuts! :lol:

[K-rado 0]

I Concur with Henny. I think what we were both getting at ( in a round- a-bout way) is "its not what ya got but the way you use it".

For those of you who have had the pleasure of advanced driving or professional racing instruction will know what we are talking about! BHP/Tonne - and use of the brain (HAND EYE Coordination) will prevail. If all else fails, Physc your challanger out. i.e Pull over and say in the pub later that you were not realy trying :lol:

[gibber 0]

I Concur with Henny. I think what we were both getting at ( in a round- a-bout way) is "its not what ya got but the way you use it".

For those of you who have had the pleasure of advanced driving or professional racing instruction will know what we are talking about! BHP/Tonne - and use of the brain (HAND EYE Coordination) will prevail. If all else fails, Physc your challanger out. i.e Pull over and say in the pub later that you were not realy trying :lol:

 

Think you got a bit of brown on your nose there mate! :lol:

[K-rado 0]

Nop. Jealous? :mrgreen:

I am as I would'nt know where to start and applaud that man for considering the project. Whish him the best o Luck.

:wink: