Shrick VGI Issues...

[adambob 0]

Hi,

 

Dubsport have spent the last week trying to get my recently acquired Schrick VGI to function properly and they've just told me they are still have difficulty.

 

On the remap - it's running fine up until about the 3500 rpm mark when there's a sudden loss in power / torque. They think it could be a faulty valve so they're currently fitting a valve from a Mk4 1600 Golf which is apparently the same?

 

Any info would be really appreciated as it's driving me mad.

 

Cheers,

Adam

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sounds like your flap isn't opening at all in which case they need to check it by running a feed straight from the vacuum actuator on the manifold to the servo accessory outlet to see if it's lifting or not.

 

The actuator is a ford part, so I don't know what VW part they are talking about.....or do they mean the solenoid with 2 vac connections? That's a VAG part....

[adambob 0]

Thanks Kevhaywire for this - i've just relayed the info to the guy who answers the phone. He said he'd communicate the suggestion to the mechanic. They'll hopefully investigate although quite frankly i'm not convinced......

 

I also mentioned your comment above re the ford part and all he could tell me was that it was a 2-valve part from a Golf?...

 

:scratch:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dubsport don't have the best reputation I'm afraid. A certain well respected VW tuner usually ends up sorting their Bodge jobs :roll:

 

Right, the Shrek..... on the manifold there is a vacuum actuator that pulls on the flap control arm. That's the ford part (unless somone's been messing with your Shcrick). To test this you can simply run a bit of hose from that straight to the servo hose outlet. You'll clearly hear it clunk when you connect the hose (engine running) if it's working. If not, it's jammed and why you're losing power at 3500 rpm.

 

If it is opening, it could be the solenoid that's not working. This is the black VAG part that has 2 vacuum connections. This opens when it recieves the timing signal from the schrick controller and then sends vacuum to the actuator on the manifold.

 

To be honest mate the Schrick is not rocket science for a VW tuner, so if they're struggling with it, take the car somewhere that does know what they're doing, namely Stealth Racing!

[adambob 0]

Point taken re dubsport.

 

Whatever happened to customer service as well? i have to phone them on a daily basis to get an update; shouldn't the business phone the customer?.....

 

From the above, i think it's the solenoid that might not be working - it could have been damaged in transit. I'm going to call them again and suggest the above. Watch this space.....

 

Thanks again mate

[gibber 0]

What happened to Dubshite, Ian Birch sold it!

He will be opening another specailist company soon.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Point taken re dubsport.

 

Whatever happened to customer service as well? i have to phone them on a daily basis to get an update; shouldn't the business phone the customer?.....

 

From the above, i think it's the solenoid that might not be working - it could have been damaged in transit. I'm going to call them again and suggest the above. Watch this space.....

 

Thanks again mate

 

No probs mate, let us know how you get on!

 

The solenoid has a VW part number on it, so they should be able get one next day (for Monday) if they ring up and order it today.

 

They did wire the controller in properly didn't they?

 

Schrick red wire to ECU Live (Red/black - pin 22 IIRC)

Schrick black wire to ground

Schrick blue wire to ECU RPM signal wire (Green/black - pin 24 IIRC)

Schrick white wire to VAG solenoid.

 

The schrick controller wiring needs soldering direct to the ECU plug pins as it is intolerant of being tapped into the wires half way down the loom.

 

Get them to rev it up to 4000 rpm and check the green LED changes to red, indicating it's sending a signal to the solenoid.

 

K

[dr_mat 0]

Funny that there's a loss of power at 3500 - the schrick usually provides a big plug of torque between 3k and 4k. Unless they've set the switchover point to 3500 for some reason..

 

Also possibly it's being pinked to death in that range? Are they trying to rechip it at the same time or just using the standard ECU for now?

[adambob 0]

Cheers for that Keyhaywire - i'll email that info to them.

 

dr_mat - They are remapping the existing ecu.

 

Is it worth buying a piggy back ecu?

[dr_mat 0]

See, the thing that strikes me about your original description is this:

 

if the schrick valve was stuck OPEN, then you'd get a perfectly normal VR engine's response. i.e. 130lbft torque up to 3800rpm when all hell breaks loose and it climbs to 180lbft through to the redline.

 

if the schrick valve was stuck closed, then you'd get a whacking great lump of torque between 2800 and 4200, and it would tail off after that.

 

if it was stuck somewhere in between, you'd probably see mostly standard engine behaviour, with maybe a little bit of extra low-down torque.

 

But you simply wouldn't see the engine dropping off a cliff at 3500rpm. That sounds more like they fecked up the chip to me, or you've a serious engine sensor problem.

[trebor 0]

Was'nt there a mass recall on schrick units lasts year>>>

[PhatVR6 0]

You shouldn't have to tell the garage how to fix it!

 

Take it off them and don't pay them a penny, clowns.

 

I'm going to open up a garage, I'm sick of hearing about all these muppets messing people about.

[Supercharged 2]

You shouldn't have to tell the garage how to fix it!

 

Take it off them and don't pay them a penny, clowns.

 

I'm going to open up a garage, I'm sick of hearing about all these muppets messing people about.

 

Well said - especially a so called specialist!

[adambob 0]

Very constructive remarks from all.

 

This is the latest....

 

They think it could be an issue with Cylinder 6 and hope to have a response to me by the end of today.

 

The car has been using a high volume of oil recently - I have been unable to detect any leaks from the block itself. Could one of the cyclinders have leak? i.e. is oil being burnt which is consequently reducing power output? There might be an issue with the ring or one of the valves....

 

Any ideas?

 

The labour charge is going to be contentious - my feelings are summarised below:

 

1. The car produced 195bhp before they touched her

2. The car produced 155bhp with the schrick manifold + cams

3. The car produced 170bhp when they put the stock manifold and cams back on....

 

Something happened between 1. and 3. which they must accept responsibility for. What do you think?

 

Cheers

[gibber 0]

You have got to print the excuse/reason they give you! This one is going to be good!

 

When you say a high volume of oil, is this high for a VR engine?

[adambob 0]

I put about 3 litres in about a month ago - they told me they had to put a further 3 litres in when they opened her up.

 

I do about 200 miles a week - and thats over 2 trips i.e. friday night and sunday night.

 

Is this normal usage?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

1. The car produced 195bhp before they touched her

2. The car produced 155bhp with the schrick manifold + cams

3. The car produced 170bhp when they put the stock manifold and cams back on....

 

Something happened between 1. and 3. which they must accept responsibility for. What do you think?

 

That does not sound good at all.

 

So the engine had a thirst for oil *before* going to Dubsport and gave 195bhp? Sounds like the oil control ring in Cyl 6 (if they are sure it's that one, it usually is though) had gone but the compression rings are OK, hence the good power.

 

I don't know why the power went down so much after they'd fiddled with it. Maybe they dropped something in the engine when fitting the manifold?

 

Either way, they definitely have a lot to answer for seemingly. It's ridiculous the amount of hashed jobs that leave their premises and usually end up at Stealth for rectification work :?

 

And yes, 3 litres of oil a month is excessive, that's half the sump! As a guide, I do about 250-300 miles a week and it uses about 1/4 litre over the same time frame.

[adambob 0]

Cheers Kev - yet more 5 star advice there.

 

I'll relay to dubsport and get back to all.

 

Cheers

[Supercharged 2]

:shock: You should never be topping up with more than 1 litre at a time and that would be below the min mark on the dipstick!

 

Like Kev says, 3 litres is half the sump! - The big ends will be completly dry going round corners...

[dr_mat 0]

Yikes... 3 litres of oil!! I'd be checking it a LOT more often if it was burning that much..

Sounds to me like they've fecked up the cams installation more than anything else.

[adambob 0]

Christ alive - sounds like there's more to this than meets the eye.

 

Can anyone provide me with an indication as to how much it's likely to cost to resolve this issue (assuming it's the oil control ring)?

 

The oil indicator light and alarm did activate on the drive up to dubsport so this further reinforces the aforementioned theories....

[adambob 0]

"call back tomorrow" - just got that old chestnut from them....

 

To be continued.....

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If cylinder number 6 has ovalised, you're looking at a large sum. A bottom end rebuild basically. And to be honest, if you're doing the bottom end, you may aswell do the head aswell whilst it's all out. Stealth charge £2700 for a full VR6 rebuild IIRC.

 

You might get away with a set of new rings but you won't be able to tell for sure until the engine is stripped and inspected and you then reach that quandry...."Well if the engine is out, may aswell rebuild it".

 

If it does come to that, don't what ever you do entrust the work to Dubsport, even if they undercut Stealth considerably. It's better to have it done once by someone that knows what they're doing than pay twice because of someone not doing a good job.

[dr_mat 0]

The most likely scenario is that your oil consumption is due to bad valve stem seals or similar. Bore wear does happen, but it's less common.

Meanwhile, your power loss is most likely:

- they broke or simply didn't refit the cam position sensor, or it's key wheel when changing the cams

- the timing is a tooth out

 

I suppose there's other possible, but you've lost 25bhp during them effectively putting the engine BACK to how it WAS, so they must have broken something.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The most likely scenario is that your oil consumption is due to bad valve stem seals or similar. Bore wear does happen, but it's less common.

 

Could be that, but I was thinking 3 litres of oil per month is a bit on the heavy side for valve guide wear. Depends what mileage the engine is on I suppose and also what grade of oil is being used. Bore ovalisation is more common to the 2.9 for some reason and it's something to bear in mind when diagnosing high oil consumption.

 

Meanwhile, your power loss is most likely:

- they broke or simply didn't refit the cam position sensor, or it's key wheel when changing the cams

- the timing is a tooth out

 

Good call on the CPS, I'd forgotten about that bad boy. That causes a 30bhp loss straight away. And yep, cams could be a tooth out.

 

I'd be seriously tempted to get it trailored to Stealth before any more damage is inflicted.