VR rattle on startup

[Rpmayne 0]

Does anyone get a rattle from what sounds like the cams / lifters when starting up before the oil pressure rises? I know its been said that if it dissappears within a few seconds its probably ok, which it does, but none of my other cars have ever done that (with higher mileages).

 

The engines had new lifters but I didn't check the cams, although they did have signs of wear. Thing is, if the cams are under minimum wear, am I going to wreck the lifters? If so, anyone got any 268's going cheap? :)

 

Mentioned many a time but is it worth getting those cams with no other mods, other than milltek, k&n panel, 3 angle valve seats and a 82.5 rebore?

[dr_mat 0]

What make of lifters did you fit?

[GIXXERUK 0]

always get a bit of cam rattle on start up , it is due an oil change tho

 

i always got the same off both mk2 golfs i had

 

hth

[GIXXERUK 0]

i might be wrong but i didnt think you should change the followers without the cam ?

[dr_mat 0]

You have to remove the cam to change the followers, obviously, but there's nowt to stop you putting the old camshafts back in...

[GIXXERUK 0]

You have to remove the cam to change the followers, obviously, but there's nowt to stop you putting the old camshafts back in...

nowt to stop you doing a lot of stuff mate but is it a good idea ? dunno but i would have thought a worn profile would prematurely wear the followers ?

personally i would do the lot , if money allowed, other cars i've done this on(usually fords on a weekly basis , pinto) you could buy a cam kit, which had everything in it

[Henny 0]

The camshafts on Corrados don't wear much at all... The tappets are designed to wear rather than the camshaft, so you can just replace the tappets with no worries and use the original cam. Mine was found to be still within factory tollerances after over 250K miles! :| 8) (the tappets were shagged though! :lol: )

[GIXXERUK 0]

superb !! excellent to know :-)

 

it was probably because it was a ford , they recommended if the tappets were worn you replaced the car and driver :-)

[Rpmayne 0]

The lifters were from GSF. Probably just getting paranoid, but don't like a near completely rebuilt engine making that noise. Would have replaced the cams then but had no money left.

[Henny 0]

did you change the oil pump? Could be that it's taking it's time to get up to pressure due to being a little on the weak side...

 

Also, what grade/type of oil are you using?

[Rpmayne 0]

Changed the oil pump for a genuine VW, and using synta silver 10w40. I dunno but it just doesn't sound as smooth as I thought it should. I know the chains (and original spec tensioner) make abit of noise but there's also general running chatter which seems to come from the LHS of the head. Abit worried the engine had been starved of oil in its previous life and there's more damage than I thought to check.

[GIXXERUK 0]

how many miles have you done since all the work was completed ?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You won't get any problems with the VR oil pump....they are tough as old houses and over-engineered for the job!

 

Did you bleed the hydraulic chain tensioning bolt? There might be air in it and the cam chains could be slack momentarily until pressure builds....causing the rattling for a few seconds?

When was the last time it was started? Could also be just a lazy lifter or two that's drained of oil?

 

VRs suffer from piston slap too, which is a diesel like clattering when cold....should be completely gone after no longer than a minute though. And yes, I've even heard rebuilt and new VR lumps do that!

 

GSF tappets (Febi) are a bit patchy. You can get a good set or you can get a bad set. I'm on my 3rd set of GSF tappets and they're noisy already after 10K. The previous set were quiet and the set before those were mega noisy! Almost as noisy as the 80K originals we hoiked out!

Genuine ones are consistently quiet though and remain that way until about 80K providing the oil is regularly changed.....but they're about £20 each though :?

[Rpmayne 0]

Done about 15k after rebuild now, and has had at least 4 oil and filter changes. Didn't bleed the hydraulic chain tensioning bolt, how do I go about that? Think I know what the piston slap sounds like, noisy as fcuk. It doesn't do that too much and only ever for a second max when starting. Thanks for the comments.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

but there's also general running chatter which seems to come from the LHS of the head.

 

This might well be the alternator or the serpentine belt tensioner. Try listening to each with a long socket handle as a makeshift stethoscope. There are also the PAS pump, the water pump and maybe an A/C compressor all down there contributing to the general melee.

 

Actually, a dying tensioner will probably screech rather than chatter; release the tension by screwing an M8 bolt into the thread provided, and check the free-running of the pulley bearing. There are several documented case of the bearing seizing up and shredding the belt; fortunately the warnings are impossible to ignore - rock hard steering and a charge warning light being amongst the more obvious.

 

I get piston slap for a while at low revs, until the engine warms up a bit. It's disconcerting at first, sounds for all the world like a dying bottom end. It disappears after a minute or so though. I like to think that all high performance engines are designed to have maximum clearances for reduced friction.........After 180k miles, I have started to use 15w40 oil and will report in due course on any changes to oil consumption. It wasn't excessive in Syntha Silver 10w40, but it's a bit quieter with the thicker stuff. The idle got lumpier though, more drag generally I suppose, especially when stone cold. Any thoughts on that are gratefully received.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Rpmayne 0]

During the rebuild the tensioner, alternator and water pump were all replaced with genuine VW parts, hence a slight robbed feeling at the end. :roll: Haven't got A/C but will check the PAS pump. I'll try and get a video of it.

 

Dunno about the oil, mates got a XR3 though and says that has to have a certain grade otherwise it runs as rough as fcuk. Maybe restrictive oil ways or something? Ran a 80k+ 16v golf on mobil 1 once, never again. Seemed to get alot noisier and the oil didn't stay in there too long.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Those fully synthetic oils are like water.

 

Except for the price.

 

In my local supplier they have the genuine VW 0w30, apparently especially formulated for "modern engines", for about £45 a can.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Didn't bleed the hydraulic chain tensioning bolt, how do I go about that?

 

I tell you what, you are one patient and tenacious man! I'd have hurled the engine in the bin long ago!

 

Anyway, to bleed the tensioning bolt, first remove it with a 27mm socket, get a jar and fill it with fresh engine oil, press a very thin piece of wire through the little hole at the end of the bolt (releases the piston) and now you push the piston into the cylinder all the way. Repeat this a few times in the jar of oil until all the air is out. The final position of the piston can be matched to the wear marks. You don't want to put it back in the engine full retracted or the chain could slip a tooth when you start her up :shock:

[Rpmayne 0]

The whole ordeal did push me abit far, had to walk away from the car with my extended torque wrench a few times.. Often felt like homer in that episode were he was trying to make that flat pack bbq. :x Thanks, will try bleeding that bolt and see what happens.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Is the chain tensioning bolt get at-able without full dismantling (ie gearbox off)? I wonder if this is part of my rattling problem as well. Would the bolt eventually bleed itself, or is it a problem that will remain until rectified by bleeding in the way Kev described.

 

I assume that it would heve been removed when the new head was put in, so maybe it wasn't bled then.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[dr_mat 0]

The bolt should bleed itself. The old Bentley manual doesn't specify to pre-tension the bolt in this manner even, so VW didn't envisage it being a problem. Not to say it's not a good idea, but the engine *should* tension it up ASAP without tooth slipping problems or anything.

I'm totally with ya on the GSF tappets. My second set in 8k miles are now noisier than the original 120k mile VW ones that were removed.. Grrr.. Wish I'd not bothered now.

If you wish to check it out, the bolt is easily got to - it's behind the timing chain area of the engine block, clearly visible.