robbystore 0 Posted July 7, 2003 Hi All, just signed up having purchased my C about a month ago.. am still smiling from ear to ear every time I drive it. Great cars! Still, greatness comes at a price!!... am having problems that hopefully someone might be able to help me with :D . I have purchased a VR6 Storm M-Reg 1995. Everything works perfectly (even the sunroof!) but the engine at idle is very lumpy / slight mis-fire. Having never driven other VR's I have nothing to compare with, but the vibration through the seat tells me something must be wrong. So far I have:- Changed all six plugs with genuine NGK plugs, fitted 6 new leads (bought from Europarts as VW wanted silly money). This didnt make any difference. I also tried buying some injector cleaner additive. No change. I decided at that point that it might be the head gasket. As the car came with three months warranty I took full advantage of it and have just had a new head gasket fitted for no cost apart from £80 to have the head reconditioned whilst it was in pieces anyway. So i gleefully went to collect my car yesterday expecting all to be perfect. Unfortunately the damn vibration / misfire is still there. Am seriously running out of ideas now. Having trawled this website for information it would appear to point towards either a sensor problem or a coil pack problem, although I get the impression coil packs cause mis fires at speed?? I only notice misfire at idle. If its the sensors is there any way of telling which one??? dont really want to go buying more parts 'blindly' having spent all my money insuring the damn thing. Any help would be really appreciated. Will be posting pics of my C shortly. Also, I intend to keep the car 'original' as much as possible but will need to change the wheels as the previous (lady) owner seems to have had endless amusement with kerbing the wheels as much as possible. Anyone know if fitting 205/40-17's will be ok. Dont want any rubbing and dont want to put the speedo out too much. The car isnt lowered (still has that 4x4 look!) and I intend to keep it that way. Thanks guys 8) Rob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rams 0 Posted July 7, 2003 Hi there The wheels sizes you state are absolutely fine, you can even go bigger and wider. The bigger wheels will make the car sit even higher, IMO it will silly as when I put 17's on my VR it looked too high and spoit the look, eibach do a 25 30 mm progressive spring and that will take the edge of the height and still give you a really comfortable ride. I will be selling mine as I want the car to be even lower so you can have mine which are only a few moths old and will be fine on your car. If you look at Members gallery, click on the Vintage port VR6 and thats mine where its on the eibach springs, or buy a new set. The eibach springs are a progressive rate spring hence keeping your ride comfort. The idel could be due to a dirty air stabilazion valve which is always causing problems. All you have to do is give it a good clean with a carb cleaner and see how you get on. Make sure the polugs if they have nipples that they are screwed on tight as the heat expands the plugs slightly and may work th enipples loose so make sure they are nipped up. Secondly, make sure the leedsa re on tight, I had a problem with the quantim leeds vw supplied me as I have just had my headgasket done and the leeds are slightly lubricated and they may pop off the connection. I just kept clicking them on again and the heat from the engine has taken the edge off the lubrication and they are fine. It has stopped arcking. Check for noises or sparking at night. I take it that you got a new dizzy cap and rotar arm? Then check the coil pack for cracks. There is a way that you can check it if you get some spray mist and at night, spray the coil pack and see what it does. Most VR suffer from coil pack problems. Crazy man on here filled the cracks with araldite for now and it has helped, his was always at low speeds when he had problems. Your best bet is to change it if its faulty, but when its all running you will feel that the car pulls hard all the way through the gears and having th eengine in tip top shape then you should have a spot on engine. Also air piping is essential that its all connected properly and that you have no air leeks. If you check that and you have problems then cry and ask a chap called kevhaywire about sensors. His knowlege is very good on VR's. :D The wheels on your car, would look sweet if they are the standard VR6 storm alloys if you get them highly polished and it will keep the storm look but with an advantage. That would look sweet IMO. :lol: Have fun! If you try all of that and still have problems it could be the actual distributer, or the coil or air flow meter, but these checks I have mentioned earlier are you best bet to start with. Please excuse all bad grammer and spelling, I type to quickly and use a lap top so the keys are closer together for errors. 8) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andi 2,147,483,647 Posted July 7, 2003 The bigger wheels will make the car sit even higher, Changing the size of your wheels does not alter the ride height, as the lower profile tyres compensate the larger wheel size. However, C's on 17s and normal ride height do look like 4x4s so normally a 20-30mm drop compensates for the visual effect of the larger wheels. Personally, I have a C on 17s and normal ride-height... and it actually looks fine. And on every drive, I still ground out, clip the front chin spoiler.. so I won't be lowering it yet! I do agree with keeping a Storm a Storm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Edwards 0 Posted July 7, 2003 Andi, Unless the speedbumps in your area are 'himalayan' in size, it might be an idea to check the dampers... :) Rob, If the engine is hunting at idle, this is the Idle Stabilisation Valve (try rinsing it through with carb cleaner). If it vibrates/stutters there may be a problem with the coilpack as it sounds like one of the cylinders isn't firing consistently (and you've already changed the plugs and leads) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted July 7, 2003 Rob - If you still have the warranty, get them to sort it then you wont be buying 'blind' parts.... Kevhaywire is your man tho for VR probs! Andi - those size 17's have a different rolling radius than the standard 15's so surely it must affect the ride height??? (and the speedo too) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Edwards 0 Posted July 7, 2003 If you change the tyres to the correct size, you can get within 1% of the rolling radius of the 15" wheel using 205/50/15 tyres. Given that the speedo is only designed to be accurate to within +10=>-0% ir isn't a problem. Not sure about fitting 18's though... :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andi 2,147,483,647 Posted July 7, 2003 Andi, Unless the speedbumps in your area are 'himalayan' in size, it might be an idea to check the dampers... Dampers are fine. Speed bumps are big. That's Croydon Council for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robbystore 0 Posted July 7, 2003 Thanks for the advice so far guys :D mucho appreciated. I will take the advice about the wheels and give it some thought! I figure my priority should be to get my C running smoothly. :cry: It's not hunting at all at idle, So i dont think its the stabilisation valve.. it sits quite happily at about 600rpm (when hot) without the needle moving at all. Sounds like it may well be the coil pack then...sigh... will have to check it out in the dark and see if any signs of flashing. Anyone have any advice about buying those things second hand??? or is it better just to bite the bullet and pay for a new 'un ? One thing I forgot to mention in my original message was that it starts fantastically well when cold (only turns once before firing) but try and start it hot if left for 10 minutes... no chance... takes 8 or 9 turns (minimum) before it fires..... not sure if this is related to my misfire problem or a seperate thing to worry about (!) :roll: By the way, anyone ever tried to retro fit (or have fitted for them) Aircon?? is it worth it?? probably wont bother, but just thought i would ask the question... found myself baking to death today even with sunroof and windows open :D Cheers Guys. Rob. p.s- If anyone's driving around the Chichester/Portsmouth Area on the south coast and spots a Green Storm, gimme a wave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rams 0 Posted July 8, 2003 Andi, If you put 17's on a c then the car is higher off the ground, normally the tyre sixe on 17 inch rims is 205 / 215 / 40 /17 so 2 inches bigger than the standard wheel and the profile on the standard wheel is 50 comapred to a 40 on the 17's so it must be higher. The arch gap may not be that much different, but the height off the ground is noticible. Some C's have higher suspension than others so if his car is one of those I think its the later C's then its going to look silly IMO. I already suggested a 25 / 30 mm, so it still looks fairly standard and with better handling. Air con - is a big job, there is a lot of work to do but I would do the job as my friend is an engineer in this department and said he would fit it for free if I buy the system. Obviously you just have to turn it off when you want the extra power, but I did the same, I cooked on the way back from Kent and just thought how nice would it be to be cool! 8) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fine wine, Belgian chocs. 1 Posted July 8, 2003 I've just consulted my Michelin tyre data book. The overall diameter of the original 20550V15 is 595mm The overall diameter of the intended 20540Z17 is 602mm This means the radius and consequently the ride height will increase by 3.5mm when fitted with the 17s so the difference is really next to nothing. Bear in mind that there is 6.4mm of useable tread on a new tyre anyway so the difference is about 5000 miles of treadwear depending how you drive! :wink: (Personally I'd leave the original wheels on though. It seems wrong to mess a Storm about to me) :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banana Man 0 Posted July 8, 2003 Hi Rob I know it sounds obvious but has the fuel filter been changed at all as if it is clogged you wont be getting the correct amounts of fuel and give you the lumpy accleration and things if that is ok I would think it would be something like the coil pack as these are prone to going faulty by all accounts check it in the dark to see if you can see any tracking sparks they will normally leave white marks where thay have tracked before if it is that. Hope you get it sorted chap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sc16v 0 Posted July 8, 2003 Just for ref for everybody visit the following link to find any tyre/wheel combo size differences when upgrading powerdog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 8, 2003 Have you checked the carbon canister's purge control valve (PCV)? It sits above plug number 1 and has a squishy 7mm 'S' shaped hose. This sometimes goes hard and cracks due to the heat from the exhaust manifold. Quite common. I would recommend checking all the hoses and the inlet manifold gaskets. Changing the idle valve doesn't always cure rough idling, so make sure the inlet side of things is OK, then go from there. Cheers Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Edwards 0 Posted July 8, 2003 Starts fine from cold but has problems when hot? Air temperature sensor? It's on the righthand end of the inlet manifold when looking into the engine bay from in front of the car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott 0 Posted July 8, 2003 Im pretty sure mate that you have nothing to worry about regarding your idle problem..... ( I assume this is your first VR?) the VR6 engine is not known as the smoothest of lumps on idle.... my needle on the rev counter stays glued at 650 - 700rpm at all times on idle yet I can feel the engine ticking over through the seat of my pants ..... this Im assured is perfectly normal - via VW and various specialists - what is more important is that the engine pick up is totally smooth.... By todays standards the VR6 engine is very 'agricultural' in somewhat 'layman' terms.... A slight off beat / misfire is actually how the engine should be - anything else means its likely to have been played with :lol: Have a listen to another VR6 and sit in it with it ticking over and tell me that Im wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 9, 2003 Have a listen to another VR6 and sit in it with it ticking over and tell me that Im wrong? You are wrong. Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott 0 Posted July 9, 2003 Care to explain your reasoning - I have sat in about half a dozen VR6's and they all do the same........... idle is never silky smooth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VR Zen 0 Posted July 9, 2003 mines smooth that i can tell you........ and i also belong to club GTI where there is a number of VR's where i have sat in and its the same as mine.... i had the mass air flow meter and ICS control unit replaced after showing two errors on the VAG-COM the car runs like a dream and pulls very strong all the away no problem....... I also had the same kind of problem robbystore had and would recommend having these two items checked out before spending money on parts that are not needed...... I also want to say that i have a G60 also, when you compare the drive between the VR and the g60 the VR's power is very refine and even balanced very hard to explain but the VR is a much better engine in delivery in power........well thats my suggestion as i have the two to compare, and no offence to G60 owners .... :lol: i now want to have the VR supercharged after all the rave reports i have heard and also taking a trip in one at nik sharon, which gave me a wide grin :evil: hope my small input helps in resolving your problem out robbystore !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VR Zen 0 Posted July 9, 2003 Before i cause any arguements these are the same specs that i now wish to carry out that are the same on the clubvr6 website ENGINE: 2.8 12v VR6 with Eurotech Racing supercharger (Vortech V2SQ charger) producing 8.5psi boost. Stealth racing big valve head. Racetech head bolts. Schrick 248sc cams (ìsc special supercharger design). Schrick VSR inlet manifold, switching at 4000rpm controlled by Milford Switching Unit. AmD large throttle body. AmD rechip aided by Chip Star mapped by Stealth Racing. Eurotech Racing oil cooler kit. Neuspeed spark plug leads. Miltek/AmD catalytic converter mated to Supersprint exhaust. ERL Aquamist water injection. Neuspeed low temperature engine and fan thermostat. Vibratch front and rear engine mounts. Power: 300bhp at flywheel; 245bhp at wheels; 265 lb/ft :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :twisted: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott 0 Posted July 9, 2003 Well horses for courses and all that I can feel the idle of my car and have done of several other VR6's and stick to my guns that the idle is slightly 'off beat'... Ive had it checked by VW and VW Specialists and even compared it to various other VR6's and also checked VAGCOM and even the compressions to find no problems so make of that as you will :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VR Zen 0 Posted July 9, 2003 interesting........... you may like to know that not all parts are not picked up by the vag -com and in result can cause the idle to be off beat like yours :shock: ..... so you are quite welcome to come down to our meet which is the last sunday of every month and come and check the westside cars including mine at park Royal near wembley........... i think kevhaywire will agree with me that the VR6 engine is one of the best engines that was produced in its time , in which when it was first produced compared to Alfa Romeo V6 engines was far more the superior of the two at the time..... i am quite older than other members on this forum (36) :oops: and have had 2 vr6 for now around since 94 with 9 month break because i went back to university so had to have a cheaper car to run. But to cut a long story if your car is Running like a 'agricultural' type of engine than i would be very interested in seeing it, if you ever go to inter's or any of the events please email me ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott 0 Posted July 10, 2003 I am quite aware of that being a qualified automotive engineer The newer Alfa V6 engines are far superior to the VR6's...... full stop. My engine runs sweet as a nut - no problems at all - all I was getting at is that the idle isnt silky smooth but doesnt show cause for concern. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 10, 2003 Care to explain your reasoning - I have sat in about half a dozen VR6's and they all do the same........... idle is never silky smooth Sure....The VR6 is, like any other engine, dependant on the air/fuel ratio being correct to both perform well and idle well. If it's wrong, it won't idle smoothly, simple as that. As a qualified motor engineer, I thought you'd know that basic principal. Incorrect a/f ratio can be attributed to many things but I assure you, VR6s so and should idle dead smooth. Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott 0 Posted July 10, 2003 Thats common sense - and of course I am aware of that..... but even the E group agrees with what I say At the end of the day I guess it comes down to how it is looked after - but I still say its an 'agricultural engine' :lol: Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted July 10, 2003 It's not agricultural in R32 form :twisted: Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
