kr to 9a

[jonny-5 0]

Hi, i've resently found out my engine is buggered and was wondering about the possibilities of fitting a 2 litre 9a engine into my 1800 kr. Is it a like for like swap, or is there a little more to it?

 

cheers

[Phil K 0]

Good question and one I may be able to help slightly with... my C has recently had a new 9A bottom end and during the swap we discovered that at some point in my C's slightly dhady past it had been given a KR bottom and had been running with the 9A head. I know that the injection systems are different though so you may need to look at that if you swap for the 9A head... have a chat with randel as he's planning to put a 9A bottom end in his atm!!!

 

Performance wise bhp figures are the same for both engines but the 9A has more tourque and doesn't have to rev as high to get you flying - good luck :D

[veedub 0]

I think you may encounter some problems because the 9a lump has a whole bunch of extras over the kr such as knock sensors, lambda probe and a cat just to mention a few!

All of which will prob be a pain to wire in!

[randal 0]

All the KR ancillaries fit on a 9A lump, of which you can pick up for not much bucks if you shop around.

 

If you're keeping the 9A head, with KR injectors it's all pretty straight forward. If you're using the KR head there are two little locating pins on the 9A block you've got to delete.

 

HTH

:D

[randal 0]

The castings for the 9A and KR are identical btw peeps. As so far as wiring is concerned, you won't have grief if you label where everything goes before you unplug it. You can even leave the gearbox in situ to make life easier. Up to you.

 

The KR never had knock sensors, so you just leave them in place on the 9A disconnected, and the cat is waaay down the exhaust pipe - 2.0L 16V people dump that anyway normally.

[jonny-5 0]

Thanks for the input people, i was thinking of just swapping everthing over (head and everything) to 9A, i think your right about all the electrical bits and bobs though because the 9A use monotronic injection i think.

[davidwort 0]

Thanks for the input people, i was thinking of just swapping everthing over (head and everything) to 9A, i think your right about all the electrical bits and bobs though because the 9A use monotronic injection i think.

 

yep, just do that, very easy really, I used a 6A which has a few differences like sump and oil pickup as it was put lengthways in the Audi's but the swap was easy, the 6A/9A uses KE-jetronic, which is basically the same as K-jet on the KR but with cat, knock sensors and elctronic fuel pressure control for warm up, enrichment etc...

Some of the pulleys on the 9A are different to the early KR's but if you have a KR complete and a 9A block you have everything you need, bar head bolts and a metal VAG headgasket - a must IMO and about 20 quid from VAG IIRC.

 

David.

[jonny-5 0]

cheers, but like what exactly would i have to do, i have a 1992 9A passat engine w/everything to take the place of the existing 1990 KR?

[randal 0]

You can use the 9A head + block with the KR injection system, KR gearbox, engine ancillaries etc...

 

http://clubgti.co.uk/forum/forum_posts. ... 52550&PN=1

 

Read and enjoy, mucho information in the above.

[jonny-5 0]

That's spot on mate, just what i needed

[jonny-5 0]

So if i understand correctly, basically i just put the engine in, wire it up to the existing electrics, block off the unused sensors and swap the inlet cam for the KR one on the way and it should go but would need fine tuning at stealth to allow for extra fuelling at the top end?

[randal 0]

Sounds reasonable. I'm sure Dave will be along shortly to confirm, as he's actually done this swap :D

 

As for blocking off sensors - I think you can just leave them in there disconnected- and swapping the cam isn't essential, just a nice mod.

 

Am interested to see what Stealth would charge for this too.

[randal 0]

Just called Stealth out of interest, and the rather helpful chap on the phone quoted me 50 quid + vat for the RR session, and said he'd be able to get it done in that time. Fortnight booking on it though...

 

HTH

[VWci 0]

Why dont you do an ABF swap ?

[randal 0]

Cos he's got a 9A lump :D

[VWci 0]

:D:D:D

[jonny-5 0]

Thanks again guys

[davidwort 0]

So if i understand correctly, basically i just put the engine in, wire it up to the existing electrics, block off the unused sensors and swap the inlet cam for the KR one on the way and it should go but would need fine tuning at stealth to allow for extra fuelling at the top end?

 

Yep, sounds good, If you're fairly sure the passat engine is in good nick then just whack the whole thing in and risk it, if you have the time and money I'd prefer to take the head off and inspect the cylinder bores, fit new big end shell bearings and a new water pump, possibly oil pump, that way the bottom end should be good for another 100,000 miles :)

It's the heads that tend to burn the oil though, as the valve guides wear the stem seals leak and the tappets go rattly, not life threatening, just oil burning. If you have the head off you can check this too.

I've seen plenty of Audi and Passat blocks that are in perfect nick at over 120,000 miles and TBH will do well over 200,000 if given proper servicing. If you are planning on building an 8,000rpm 200hp screamer though don't expect to reach this sort of power or reliability with an old block and head :wink:

KR inlet cam will give you much better top end, if you've got one I'd recommend you put it in it's a really good compromise between mid range torque and high end power, the 9A cam was designed to keep the 9A within emissions for the old K-jet fuel system using a CAT, it gives a very flat torque curve but doesn't suit the revvy ability of the 16v IMO.

 

David.

[jonny-5 0]

Yeh i thought about taking it to bits and replacing stuff, it's in pretty good condition any way (about 65,00 on the clock) but i think i'll have it apart cos it'll be a laugh. I'd heard good things about the old KR inlet cam trick and though that i'd have one going spare anyway i might aswell chuck it in while i'm in the mood for some modin'

[aide 0]

If you have kr and 9a cams, and your using the complete 9a engine then i'd suggest keeping your existing 9a exhaust cam, but instead of putting the kr inlet cam as the inlet on the 9a head, modify the kr exhaust cam as an inlet on the 9a, this will give even better performance than the kr inlet cam + it allows you to sell your kr cam to someone with 9a.

 

i have used the 9a zorst cam as an inlet on my kr and it makes noticeable difference, PM me with a proper email and i'll send you the guide.

[davidwort 0]

If you have kr and 9a cams, and your using the complete 9a engine then i'd suggest keeping your existing 9a exhaust cam, but instead of putting the kr inlet cam as the inlet on the 9a head, modify the kr exhaust cam as an inlet on the 9a, this will give even better performance than the kr inlet cam + it allows you to sell your kr cam to someone with 9a.

 

i have used the 9a zorst cam as an inlet on my kr and it makes noticeable difference, PM me with a proper email and i'll send you the guide.

 

I think the exhaust cams used for inlets work better on the 1.8 than the 2.0 block, not sure of the lift/duration differences though, there should be a lot more info on this on the Club GTI forum. Apparently the ABF (MK3 16v) inlet cam gives more lift than a KR one but less duration.

 

David.

[aide 0]

Dunno about mixing/ matching of cams/ displacement.

 

The 9a inlet is 8.9, the kr inlet is 9.6 and the 9a/kr exhaust is 10.1 with similar durations from memory!

[corradophil 3]

I think the exhaust cams used for inlets work better on the 1.8 than the 2.0 block

 

Thats the impression I have got too from reading up on the subject.

[jonny-5 0]

So does anyone got any idea what i should actually do with the whole cam thing (if anything)

[randal 0]

KR Inlet cam, 9A exhaust cam as far as I can see mate.