G60 vs CRX

[goneinG60seconds 0]

I am going to race a freind of mine around a tarmac rally stage and he is boasting that he wil easily win, I have all the usuals stage 4 charger upgrade, 68mm pulley, chip, induction kit, coilovers, while he has a 1990 CRX vtec with an induction kit!

 

I am looking for some other thoughts on this matter, who is going to win??

 

p.s. driving ability is about equal!!

[jedi-knight83 0]

i have to say i think the crx handles slightly better than the corrado so if its twisty... my money is on the crx.....and as you will see from my sig.. i have owned both a crx and a corrado!

[Majik 0]

Depends what VTEC it is, the imports had more bhp than uk version and if its a twin cam vtec its going to be very nippy.

hey are lighter cars, easy to move from a standstill and handle quite well, whereas the corrado would give an advantage on the longer straights and high speed bends as it is more stable.

[jedi-knight83 0]

sorry but its not more stable! the crx is such a planted car! and the imports werent higher bhp. they were all twin cam and had 160bhp. you could get single cam cars but i dont think they were vtec. I'd still have my money on the honda

[dazzyvr6 0]

umm wasnt the corrado hailed as the best handling fwd of its time?so that was up to 1995??and the crx in question is a 1990?

[jedi-knight83 0]

have you driven both?

 

just noticed it was a 1990 actually... sure its a vtec? 1990 was the change over year and only the very very late 1990 ones were vtec. earlier ones were 130 bhp 16v.

[goneinG60seconds 0]

it is definately a vtec on a H reg 90/91 I will beat him I assure you even if I have deflate his tyres! :D

[sciroccotune 0]

The crx's i have driven have always been more top end (i.e when vtec comes in - infact the normal ones to) so at least your g60 will have some low-down 8v style. NO doubt it will be close however...

 

let us know the outcome and should be fun trying ;-)

[goneinG60seconds 0]

I will let you know the outcome but keep your opinions coming

 

Cheers

[bristolbaron 10]

I had a little blat with a CRX the other day, and wasn't far off, but the CRX was faster. my G's standard, with engine mods you should be even, or poss faster.

[Spykee 0]

sorry but its not more stable! the crx is such a planted car! and the imports werent higher bhp. they were all twin cam and had 160bhp. you could get single cam cars but i dont think they were vtec. I'd still have my money on the honda

 

the imports JDM were higher BHP (@175bhp std) than the UKDM CRX's due to a different cam profile and also inlet and exhaust manifold but when you say 1.6 Vtec there are a number of variations.....

 

you can get an SOHC Vtec 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6 now but back then i think it was only the 1.5 and 1.6 available in both SOHC and DOHC!

 

the only difference being with the 2 derivatives of the DOHC is whether it is a tripple or double lobe cam which gives the main difference in the performance!

 

the one to watch out for is if he has the CRX 1.6 VTI as this one is 160Bhp but saying that it only has 110lb/ft of torque so as far as the twisties go although the CRX is far more nimble unless you keep it on cam then its going to be sluggish as hell! saying that the cam on them is far more agressive than today's Vtec engines with the cam profile changing lower at 6400rpm and topping out at 8250rpm so there is a fair bit of a powerband there! 8)

 

the reason why its so rapid is the CRX VTI (triple lobe cams) has the same engine block as the very rare Civic Type R EK9 which is Jap import only and has 187bhp from a 1.6 Vtec DOHC lump called the B16c5 !

 

the CRX has a slightly different derivative the B16a, the same as the last model Civic VTI!

 

i would say if he has had it for a bit he certainly knows how to drive it and will definately give you a run for your money!

 

Alex

[Carrot 0]

the reason why its so rapid is the CRX VTI (triple lobe cams) has the same engine block as the very rare Civic Type R EK9 which is Jap import only and has 187bhp from a 1.6 Vtec DOHC lump called the B16c5 !

 

Most of what you said was wrong but that was the only mistake I thought I might aswell correct.

 

The EK9 has a B16B, there was never a B16C made, and the block is the same block as used in the Integra TypeR (1800cc) B18C5/6 but has longer rods so the displacement is only 1600cc.

[Spykee 0]

ok so if im talking b0llox then why dont you be kind enough to corect me fo the benefit of others? :roll:

 

nice 1st pst as well btw :roll:

 

Alex

[Spykee 0]

ok so explaining myself more clearly seeing as our resident newbie 'Carrot' doesnt want to contribute unless its negative! :roll:

 

ALL THE BLOCKS TALKED ABOUT ARE THE SAME!!!!!! :roll:

 

its the head that is different!

 

B16A1 was in the Honda CRX VTI (UKDM) which was 160Bhp @ 7600rpm and 111 lb/ft of torque @ 7000rpm (so how was i wrong???)

B16A1 was also found in the Civic VTI (not wrong again)

B16B was in the Civic TypeR EK9 (i was wrong and realised i got this mixed up after posting, with the DC2 Integra TypeR)

this was 184bhp @ 8200rpm and 118 lb/ft of torque @ 7500 rpm

 

no such thing as a B16c (sorry) :oops:

 

B18c5 was in the Honda Integra TypeR DC2, 195Bhp @ 8000rpm and 130 lb/ft of torque @ 7500 rpm (which i knew but had no need to post so not wrong again)

 

now the thing with the B-Series engines is that all blocks and heads appart from those on the B20 and B21 engines are interchangeable as well as being able to drop say EK9 B16b cams into a B16A1 engine with no problems! (definately right)

 

now all i said was the 2 derivatives of 1.6 the Vtec and non-Vtec i didnt say which block it has and at no time did i say the non-Vtec is a B16!! :roll: (so not wrong again)

 

the SOHC Vtec 1.6 is a D15A1 engine (88-91) or D16Z6 engine (92-95) that was in the CRX ESi!!!!!

 

the cam lobe thing i was way off on! only a tripple lobe was introduced in the current Civic TypeR wthin the i-Vtec DOHC K20 engines! (totally wrong)

 

now can someone explain to me how i was wrong with 'nearly all of it' as it was put :roll:

 

its always easier knowing than trying to explain! :lol:

 

Alex

[MattWilde 10]

alex, i mean no offence so pleased don't take any :) but it depends on the crx, if it's the old wedge shape then it will have a B16A1 engine with 150bhp DOHC VTEC, if it's the late smooth shape then it will have the B16A2 engine which is 160bhp. Carrot is correct in that there was no B16c5, i think you are thinking of the intergra type r (DC2) which had the B18C engine, the civic was the B16B (EK9). All 16v vtec engines had tripple lobe cams, the difference was whether both inlet and exhaust cams were vtec(150/160bhp), or just the inlet cam(130bhp). The Vtec zones on the crx would be from 5500rpm to 8250rpm and when driven properly are very quick despite the lack of torque, but one stray gear change will ruin a good run as there is always a power dip just before the cam crossover.

good luck with the race

[Spykee 0]

no offence taken matt,

 

which i why i corrected myself in the post above yours, bracketing where i got it wrong ;)

 

AFIK tho the CRX Coupe (glass back) and the 2 seater Del-Sol style had a 160bhp engine tho?

 

How come the EP2 Civic Sport has a Vtec engine then that doesnt have a 3rd lobe if all Vtec engines have tripple lobe cams?

 

EDIT: im with you on the twin/tripple lobe thing! Civic Sport only has Vtec on the exhaust not the inlet as well then?

 

Alex

[MattWilde 10]

sorry dude, we seemed to be writing at the same time so that post didn't exist :oops:

i'm not going to swear on this, but i believe the glass backed crx had a B16A1 running on an older style ecu (obd1 i think) making 150bhp, the 2 seater had the B16A2 on the obd2 ecu and had 160bhp.

I'm guessing you know how vtec works so i'll not be going into too much detail, but if you have a 16V head, then you need 4 lobes per cylinder for the inlet and exhaust valves. so the third lobe is the aggressive lobe that sits between the 2 normal lobes making 3 lobes. for there to be 2 lobes, one normal, one aggressive, then it won't be a 16V head.

again, i'm not saying this is set in stone (my disclaimer ;))

[Spykee 0]

right the B16A1 was introduced in 1991 by the looks of it into the CRX VTI and is 150bhp as you stated before, info found here:

 

http://www.cr-x.org/home/jdmspecs.html

 

as carrot can see the JDM SI-R does in fact have an extra 10bhp over the UKDM one ;)

 

basically if its a VTI its a B16 tho so he could be running anything under the bonnet ...........to get it up to about 195ish bhp he could have easily dropped a set of cams in from an EK9..... thats if it is a VTI, if it isnt then maybe there isnt much to worry about cos it will have a D-Series engine with 130bhp, which has bugger all modding potential!

 

good luck!

 

Alex

[StormVR6 0]

Have I entered a Honda forum by mistake??!! :lol:

So Alex, after your impressive knowledge of the rice-mobile engine, which car (with equally skilled drivers) is the quickest on a track? :lol:

[Spykee 0]

Have I entered a Honda forum by mistake??!! :lol:

So Alex, after your impressive knowledge of the rice-mobile engine, which car (with equally skilled drivers) is the quickest on a track? :lol:

 

LMAO! erm..... i have no idea mate! :lol: :lol:

 

i was just trying to give a bit of honda knowledge seeing as i have one as well as the G

 

no point saying about the G as everyone knows what its capable of on here! :wink:

 

i would say it'll be close

 

Alex

[StormVR6 0]

Well being an extreme loyalist, I'm vouching for the C to win!

I would expect the same if I was going to loose badly :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

No seriously though, the C is a very capable car, it may feel "heavy" when cornering sometimes, but I still amaze myself when I've realised just how fast I've gone around a bend.

 

If it's a decent track with more than just a few tight corners then I think it will very close. Also if there are reasonable straights then I believe the C will "out-torque" the Honda, which TBH is the only real way the C can win.

 

Good luck goneinG60seconds and remember to accelerate hard out of those bends, that's where your strong point lies, torque, torque and more torque. :)

[Not_Aircooled_or_Taxfree 0]

Tuff one, i raced a civic type R old shape and was killed up to 70, after that he was mine! be warned, never undestimate the powers of the dark (Jap) side.

[Spykee 0]

the dark side is a very enticing one i have to say!

 

i love its high revving powerband 8)

 

the EK9 is bound to hammer you up to 70 tho seeing as its 0-60 is 5.7 secs ;) that and 185bhp out of a 1595cc engine is pretty damn impressive though isnt it! 8)

 

once it gets up to 5th gear though it will even out cos its got pretty close gear ratios to compensate for the lower torque!

 

if its a CRX VTI i would say its the straights that your going to have to floor it on more and get the power down early out of the bends to ensure as much speed on exit as possible! its a tough one though cos at the end of the day i know that for example if your in 2nd in the G60 then its likely to be 3rd gear at the same speed in my TypeR just before it comes on cam at 5800rpm, otherwise its at about 6500-7000rpm in 2nd with about 1000-1250k rpm left to go so both cars can get the power down easily but its the way that they do it! thats the TypeR though dont forget! the VTI isnt anywhere near as quick ;)

 

Alex

[MattWilde 10]

i'd say, to win the race you have to get him off the line, for a decent start for him a 5500rpm launch is needed or he will bog down and your torque will get you away better, it's then just a case of not letting him pass, if it's time trials then i'm sorry to say but if it's a 160bhp VTi then he will win although it will be close. The honda engine is race derived with it's peak torque and HP at high rpm's, where as the G60 has a very good flat power curve, great for domestic driving but there aren't many race cars with those characteristics.

just my humble opinion of course :)

 

edited to say: alex, to confuse you more if it is an import JDM VTi, then it has a 1.5 engine with only the inlet cam having the Vtec, the JDM Si-R has the same engine at the VTi but with 170bhp due to better fuel there and a higher CR. And with the cam thing on the civic sport or the ESi engines then i think it's the inlet cam that has Vtec and the exhaust cam is standard.

[Spykee 0]

edited to say: alex, to confuse you more if it is an import JDM VTi, then it has a 1.5 engine with only the inlet cam having the Vtec, the JDM Si-R has the same engine at the VTi but with 170bhp due to better fuel there and a higher CR. And with the cam thing on the civic sport or the ESi engines then i think it's the inlet cam that has Vtec and the exhaust cam is standard.

 

im with you matt :wink:

 

i take it you have had a Vtec at some point have you mate? you seem to know your stuff!

 

was the 1.5 JDM engine the ZC though or was it a D-Series? i already spotted that the SI-R is 170bhp mate as i said '10bhp' more than the UKDM one in one of my other posts ;)

 

Alex

 

Alex