Intermittent starting problem, VR

[bradvr6 0]

Hi people,

 

I've searched high and low on here and can't find a matching problem.

 

Its a rado vr6 94 and it's showing all the signs of the immobiliser problem. Turn the key, the fuel pump primes, get a spark, engine starts then cuts out after about 1 second. Problem is, there is no immobiliser on it!

 

Ive had it on the computer at the garage and no faults have shown up.

 

Ive checked all the relays for damage, all seem to be fine. However, In checking the relays and re-seating them, it seemed to have solved it.

 

A few weeks later the problem is back. As messing with the relays seemed to work, I bought a new ECU relay. (109) Again, seemed to do the trick.......yep.....it's back again!

 

Mechanic has'nt a clue, Auto electrician has'nt a clue and I'm stuck.

 

Can anyone suggest a possible cause? :cry:

Could it simply be a loose connection behind the fuse board?

 

Ta.

[dr_mat 0]

There's an immobiliser in the ECU ... (I note you have a late - M reg - VR6).

 

There's a reader coil in the steering column that talks to the key. Try the spare key. If that doesn't work you might be lucky and find the reader coil has come dislodged and slid down the column - re-fix it in place. If that fails try the connection between the reader coil and the immobiliser control box (apparently this can corrode). If that fails you'll have to replace it all ...

 

An ECU measuring block scan will reveal that "Engine authorised to start: 0" if the immobiliser doesn't get the right info back from the key.

[RW1 0]

Ive had it on the computer at the garage and no faults have shown up.

If the ECU imobiliser, chassis has to be after 50SK000719. A fault code for this does exist - 17978 Engine control unit blocked. If not there, then don't suspect the ECU immobilisation or the coil reader for the key.

 

If that fails you'll have to replace it all ...

WD40 the connector pins and gently work the connector to scrape the pin surfaces at the immobiliser box (if fitted) inside the dash behind the headlight switch. Bottom box, top is spoiler control. 3 wire connection coming from the steering column. You will need to remove the parcel shelf & fuse cover parcel shelf under the dash to get at it. If it is this, WD40 lasts, mine - 8 years so far.

 

Sometimes just disturbing the wires in the area like you may have done replacing th relay can "ease" the situation for a while by accident.

 

.

[bradvr6 0]

Cheers guys,

 

Not sure what the reader coil looks like dr_mat. I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to cars! Ive had the panels off though and done the wd40 trick so I'll have to see how that goes.....

 

I checked the chassis number and it is later than 50SK000719 but for some reason there is no chip in the key.... :? I also has a spare cut at the local key shop and that works just as well as the origional.

 

I forgot to mention I had a Clifford G5 fitted last year(alarm/immob) but since the problems started I had the immobiliser disconnected so should'nt affect it right?

[dr_mat 0]

Your ECU might have been swapped at some point maybe? What's the part number on your ECU?

Anyway, if you definitely don't have it, probably not worth worrying about.

Might be the fuel pump btw .. You're building just enough pressure to start the car but then it's dropping when it tries to keep it fuelled?

Does that fit with the symptoms?

Does the engine stop dead as if the key was removed or cough splutter to death?

[bradvr6 0]

Well guys, Touch wood it seems to have cleared up the problem since I WD40d the connector pins on the immob box.

 

Now I've just to sort my sunroof and the heater fan............again!

 

Cheers for all the help fellas! :D

[Dilated 0]

I had this exact same problem, and VW robbed me blind.

I'm now driving my bruvs old VR (N reg) which has the immobiliser in the key) and when he had it, this problem surfaced on a few occasions.

 

First time he took it to a main dealer and they checked it out, said it was the fuel pump so replaced it and all was well and good for a couple of months. Then it started doing it again, so he went to a different main dealer who checked it out and said it was that coil that was mentioned earlier, so they replaced that. Then it ran for like a year with no problems until I got it. Car had been sat on the drive for a few months and I finally sorted all the documents out so I could drive it and took it to work on a morning. Drove fine all the way there then the problem started again just after I got some fuel.

 

I had no other option but to get it towed to the garage and my veedub speciliast immediately thought it was the transponder in the key, might have needed re-coding since it was stood for a long time. So I had to get it towed to the main dealers in Leeds (Richard Alexander) and they did the work without calling me and charged me £125 for TWO FUSES to be replaced and the corresponding "looms" apparently. The two fuses they reckon they replaced were the reverse light fuse and the dash fuse (which I knew were out cos I took them out!). So i get back in the car and start it up no problems, then noticed that they haven't even put a bloody dash fuse back in it. I felt well and truly fleeced.

 

Glad this thread is here, as i've a sneaking suspicion that it will die on me again at some point, at least now I know what to look for myself.

 

One other thing that I found out recently was that sometimes taxi radios and mobile phone masts can interfere with immobiliser signals and cause problems on some models of cars. I was starting to think that might have been the issue.

[tango 0]

Your ECU might have been swapped at some point maybe? What's the part number on your ECU?

Anyway, if you definitely don't have it, probably not worth worrying about.

Might be the fuel pump btw .. You're building just enough pressure to start the car but then it's dropping when it tries to keep it fuelled?

Does that fit with the symptoms?

Does the engine stop dead as if the key was removed or cough splutter to death?

I don't believe this,

this has just happened to my vr,

it's as if the key has been removed,

i tried it again and again and it kept starting then dying after about 1 second,

then it starts after about 10 try's!!!

what do you think it is guys????

[dr_mat 0]

Could it be ... no... possibly .. the immobiliser???

[STORM 2 0]

.

[STORM 2 0]

Ive had it on the computer at the garage and no faults have shown up.

If the ECU imobiliser, chassis has to be after 50SK000719. A fault code for this does exist - 17978 Engine control unit blocked. If not there, then don't suspect the ECU immobilisation or the coil reader for the key.

 

If that fails you'll have to replace it all ...

WD40 the connector pins and gently work the connector to scrape the pin surfaces at the immobiliser box (if fitted) inside the dash behind the headlight switch. Bottom box, top is spoiler control. 3 wire connection coming from the steering column. You will need to remove the parcel shelf & fuse cover parcel shelf under the dash to get at it. If it is this, WD40 lasts, mine - 8 years so far.

 

Sometimes just disturbing the wires in the area like you may have done replacing th relay can "ease" the situation for a while by accident.

 

.[/quote:020b7]

 

I just thump the dash around the area of the control box and it always works! Very Fonzy

[benson 0]

My 2p, for what it's worth... Three words: Fuel Pump Relay

 

This controls / has a direct influence on both fueling and on some cars spark as well.

Worth a try as it's only £18.59 + VAT from Stealers and probably considerably cheaper elsewhere...

Girlfriend's SEAT Ibiza (1.4 ABD engine) has been playing up with the same fire up for 2 seconds then cut out nonsense described at the beginning of this thread for the last few months and have tried changing coolant temp sensors a couple of times which improved (but didn't cure) it for a while, but changed fuel pump relay last night and it now fires up straight away and stays running.

 

Hope that's of some use.

[tango 0]

guy's your stars,it's going in to get looked at the mora morning,

at least now i'll sound as if if got abit of know on the workings of a rado.

 

thanks to you all again.

 

Jim .

[bradvr6 0]

Tango and storm2,

 

IMO you're best off trying the wd40 trick that RW1 suggested. It's dead easy and worth a try. If it works it'll cost you nowt!

 

I changed my ecu and fuel pump relays as reseating them always seemed to sort it. You think you've solved it, then one day, its gone again. Moving the relays must have been moving the wire to the immobiliser box. Also hitting the dash under the headlight switch worked too but its not a solution.

 

It's been a month or so since I did it's working fine! :D Touch wood!

[Brunty's Dad 10]

Experiencing a similar problem. Temperamental starting recently, sometimes running for a couple of seconds and running properly on 3rd - 5th attempt, sometimes not starting immediately but running OK after a "rest". Now not starting at all, not firing with strong smell of fuel. Located the immobiliser box, removed leads and carried out procedure as above. No change, but inspection showed lead contacts clean and shining silver. Is my next step to get hold of a replacement immobiliser box?

[Brunty's Dad 10]

Just wondering if it was the immobiliser I was working on. It was a plastic box with 2 small connectors on the bottom surface. The box is roughly 75 x 20 x 75. Behind it I have just found another box with a multi pin connector which I have not been able to remove yet. Advice please.

[seanl82 23]

Behind where the manual switch for the spoiler is? If so yes it's immobiliser. Multi pin one is spoiler control module.

[Brunty's Dad 10]

Replaced relay 109 (£8.90 from ebay, 24 hour free delivery) and problem solved - I hope, it was intermittent so I shall have to wait to see if this was the solution.