2.0 G60 threads?

[Riley 0]

sorry everyone,ive tried searching by using '2.0ANDg60' etc but i just cant find anything :( !

 

would like as much info as possible,ive got a spare engine and im bored. :roll: so im thinking of selling the sportline to fund sommet...

 

neil.

[billinjah 0]

sam is the man to chat to about large capacity g60's neil, hes having one built/fixed atm mate.

[Riley 0]

cheers bill 8) samg60? username?

 

just wondering about the possible use of another crank and which one?

little more torque? little less revviness?

 

neil.

[billinjah 0]

blue_joe i think he got a bored block

[Blue_Joe 0]

You Called????

 

It all depends on how far you want to go. Personally i wouldn'd go as far as I have, in some ways I regret it due to the sheer problem solving that has had to be done and the MASSIVE expense! Mine is a 2031cc G60 now using the original block, boring out to 83.5mm (which is to extreme and no room for error) moving the oil squirters but still retaining them. 9A Crank and Rods. Then custom designed JE pistons, they've never been made before so we've had to go to the drawing board on the pistons and that is not cheap! Plus it's taken one set of pistons melting and another 5 months to design a set of pistons up to the job!!!!

 

If you want good power and torque levels at a good price to convert and still retaining the usability you need to look more along the lines of Henny's engine. I'm not sure what crank setup he's using but he's running at 1940cc which is a bit more of a "safer" spec.

 

Plus the main man to do this work is Jim at Racepower Motorsport. He is doing my engine and also did Henny's! He's about 74 and has been doing it for 50 years and REALLY knows his stuff. If you ask him which to do he'll say the 1940cc. I asked and that is what he told me, but I told him I wanted to push it to the limit and he agreed and has. However he has now told me with all the nightmares this engine has thrown up he won't do another like it!

 

If you want any more info or want to speak to Jim let me knwo and I'll get you his number!

[Riley 0]

thanks bill/sam 8) ! appreciate the info.and sounds like a mean setup sam :evil:

 

ahh,moving the oil jets...was that a case of tapping some threads elsewhere in the block to relocate em?

i do have a 9a lump sat around doing nothing thats all...

 

the custom pistons may throw me the 1940cc way though,i dont mind the idea of buying oversize 'off the shelf' ones so to speak.

what size is the max without being one offs? (henny's?)

think he's on the standard crank?

 

ill be building it myself if i sell the sportline,may as well while the rado can still be used,plus saving cash...

 

so for now:

what size pistons for 1940cc and where best from?

what about the rods,worth having them worked on a g?

 

cheers guys.any other info anyone can throw up would be cool.

neil.

[Blue_Joe 0]

I can't say how and where Jim moved the oil squiters to as he asked me not to. But bearing in mind they have to squirt oil up and onto the underside of the piston it quite limits you. You also have to customise the skirt of the piston when doing it to prevent the piston from hitting it when on my size engine.

 

You can buy up to 83.5mm off the shelf pistons, however you are better off with 83mm at biggest really as 83.5 is boring the block to an extreme. I've used the 9a crank and rods on mine which creates a long throw big enough to displace 2031cc, but that is where all the problems occur with the pistons and oil squirters.

 

Henny doesn't use the original crank either I think it is out of a diesel engine, as to rods I'm not sure, I think he has G60 rods, if you can keep the original G60 rods your best off doing so. The G60 Rods are virtually indestructable.

 

Easiest conversion is just a replacement set of oversized pistons to take you to 1.9, Not quite as far as Hennys will only cost you for the pistons and the overbore of the block. The Standard oversized JE's are about £650. That keeps the budget down and lets you spend some more on the top end which is key to releasing power on the G60!

[woody 0]

Henny's original block was made by John Mitchell 16vG60 as i remember henny driving down to collect it from him on a sunday and then coming to the GTI meet

[Blue_Joe 0]

Henny's original block was made by John Mitchell 16vG60 as i remember henny driving down to collect it from him on a sunday and then coming to the GTI meet

 

Yes but John didn't ACTUALLY do any of the work on it. He gave it to Jim at Racepower Motorsport to do for him!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't see the point of involving a middleman if I can help it as it only ends up costing you more, best to go straight to source in most instances!!!!

[_leon_ 0]

from what i have been looking at using a bore of 83mm with the std crank and rods will give you a displacement of 1870cc. If you use either different rods or another crank/rods then you go past that to 1940cc - again with an 83mm bore. There is a way however to get 1980approx using an 82.5mm bore and using another crank - i just haven't worked it out yet or read enough.

 

again you'd save money by going to JE directly - about 150 cheaper iirc. its a tough call about money - i priced up work with a well known tuner and it wasn't very far off what i had calculated doing it myself. Granted i could have chosen stronger rods/arp bolts etc - but considering 200-300 was the difference in price, i'd be getting all the building/machining/cleaning/painting/parts/new fixings etc etc etc all included - can't help but deny for the money its a really good deal - I'm very tempted myself.

 

good luck with your project

[mk1charger 0]

If you are going for a rebuild I would lose the G60 rods, they are too short and tend to rotate the shells on your big end. Using 144mm rods out of a KR or 9A allow the engine to rev far more cleanly and is a better rod ratio.

 

These rods are the same as fitted to a TT and S3 engines so there is no problems with strength.

 

:)

[W3RKD 0]

If you are going for a rebuild I would lose the G60 rods, they are too short and tend to rotate the shells on your big end. Using 144mm rods out of a KR or 9A allow the engine to rev far more cleanly and is a better rod ratio.

 

These rods are the same as fitted to a TT and S3 engines so there is no problems with strength.

 

:)

 

We have been telling him this from the start Jat - We have a few brewing at the moment also.. Did you also see the big valve head pics mate ?

[Riley 0]

cheers,good info 8)

 

so kr/9a rods would definately mean relocating the oil squirters and trimming the piston skirts? or is this only if using the 9a crank?

 

arent the diesel cranks 95.5mm? surely that would take a bit of work? removing metal from around oil pump mounting etc?

 

is the kr crank the same throw as the g60? i have both kr and 9a lumps sat around doing nothing so...

 

ok.too many things going on here :lol:

83mm pistons sounds like a good start.

 

if possible i want to stay away from having pistons machined etc,so which crank/rods would be the best bet?

i wouldn't mind having them worked though,knife edged/lightened/balanced crank and shot blasted rods? or steel? :shock:

 

ps:i should hopefully get around 4k for the sportline,so my plans are ideally a full rebuild with bigger capacity (one way or another) a worked head/cam,4 branch,red tops,3.5 fpr,map sensor from tdi???,possibly an eaton charger,and a remap.

 

realistic if im throwing it all together myself?

and this is if i sell the sportline :oops: its a big decision for me...

[_leon_ 0]

copy cat ;)

[mk1charger 0]

If you are going for a rebuild I would lose the G60 rods, they are too short and tend to rotate the shells on your big end. Using 144mm rods out of a KR or 9A allow the engine to rev far more cleanly and is a better rod ratio.

 

These rods are the same as fitted to a TT and S3 engines so there is no problems with strength.

 

:)

 

We have been telling him this from the start Jat - We have a few brewing at the moment also.. Did you also see the big valve head pics mate ?

 

Daz,

 

I've been meaning to email you but been so busy at moment. Not seen the the pics mate. If I don't speak to you before I shall be at Inters so we have a chat there, I'll be at the sprint! LOL :lol:

 

Jat

[W3RKD 0]

If you are going for a rebuild I would lose the G60 rods, they are too short and tend to rotate the shells on your big end. Using 144mm rods out of a KR or 9A allow the engine to rev far more cleanly and is a better rod ratio.

 

These rods are the same as fitted to a TT and S3 engines so there is no problems with strength.

 

:)

 

We have been telling him this from the start Jat - We have a few brewing at the moment also.. Did you also see the big valve head pics mate ?

 

Daz,

 

I've been meaning to email you but been so busy at moment. Not seen the the pics mate. If I don't speak to you before I shall be at Inters so we have a chat there, I'll be at the sprint! LOL :lol:

 

Jat

 

ill look foward to it

 

http://the-corrado.net/.archive/forum/viewtopic. ... light=head

 

see here /\

[Henny 0]

'lo! Thought I'd drop my thoughts in... 8)

 

Firstly, let me clear something up...

 

John Mitchell (JMR) did send my engine off to RPM to do the work, however he was up-front about this from the start as it's a setup HE specc'd up and it was him who sat with the catalogue and worked out which pistons to use in the conversion. Basically, I couldn't have done it without him, and it wasn't a conversion that RPM offered until John had done it with their engineering help. I'll happily state that I'd do the same again if I was starting in the same place with the same knowledge now.

 

 

 

Right, so, my engine's based around what I believe to be a passat crank with 83mm Mahle pistons which were then modified to make 'em clear the oil squirter which is retained in the standard position. The wrist pins have a 1mm sleeve over 'em to make 'em fit the standard G60 rods.

The crank has been mildly lightened and dynamically balanced (along with the pistons and rods) to ensure it's as smooth running as possible. It wasn't knife edged.

The flywheel has been lightened quite a bit to enable faster spin up/down times making the engine more rev-happy.

EVERYTHING the air flows through on its journey into and out of the engine has been gasflowed and port matched where possible.

The inlet manifold and bottom of the throttle body have been coated with heat reflecting tape, and the downpipe has been wrapped with exhaust tape.

 

Due to the throw of the crank only being slightly longer than standard, I don't run as high a risk of spinning the bottom end shells in this engine, however I DO agree that using the 9a/KR rods would be a good idea if you were going for a higher capacity/longer throw.

 

If I were to rebuild another G60, I'd probably go the same way again because, although I've had a lot of bad luck with my engine and damaged it several times, nothing's gone mechanically wrong with it due to the actual capacity increase work and it does create some very good figures while remaining VERY usable for every day driving to work and back.

 

Since getting the block from John nearly 3 years ago, I've completely rebuilt it after having a few problems with a damaged headbolt thread in the block and also having a small bolt go into the engine through the head and into a piston which were, like I said, just plain old bad luck. At no time have I considered doing anything else to the block to get more out of it as I'm happy that this bottom end is good for a lot more power than I'll ever be able to get from it with only a G60 charger on a 68mm pulley (which was part of my original spec for this engine due to the 20K+ miles a year I'm throwing at it)...

 

I spent A LOT of time searching around for options for my rebuild and learnt an awful lot (as well as posting a lot on here too! :lol: ) at the same time. I'm only too happy to pass on any info I've learnt, but don't take it as gospel, I have opinions which may differ from other peoples and I have made (some quite expensive) mistakes during my journey to the 250BHP engine I now have... Other people have achieved similar power from an 8V G60, some have gone higher capacity and got more power, some have got similar from slightly lower capacity, lots have got less power...

 

If anyone DOES decide to do a capacity increase, my one overwealming piece of advise is to ask around as much as you possibly can before undertaking any work as a bad decision at the start can cost you dearly, or leave you with an engine that you simply aren't happy with, which you really don't want...

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

maybe you should write up a 'how to' on capacity increases and make it a sticky?? as it makes for quite interesting reading, and also the fact i might want to do one in 12 months time when my loans are paid off again!!

[Henny 0]

sheesh... I haven't got the time to post on here that regularly at the moment what with work, trying to find somewhere to live, organising my wedding and keeping my G60 on the road without trying to put down the sum of my knowledge on G60s on here in a single post! :lol: ;)

 

I'd love to do that, but I simply don't have the time and wouldn't know where to start... :|

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

tell you what, you do the write up and ill find somewhere to live, marry your missus and kep your car on the road!! Deal ? :lol:

[Riley 0]

:lol:

thanks ian 8)

 

is the crank from a passat/9a ? 92.8mm?

little unsure about sleeves over the gudgeon pins...i know if done correctly then it should be ok,but imo its another area to wear and cause possible problems.

 

i may be missing something here but,whats the reason that the pistons weren't g60 specific ian? to fit the rods?

 

and with the longer throw crank,were the pistons modified for valve clearance at all?

 

could someone just throw up the standard g60 rod/crank/bore/stroke specs? would help me to get my head around things a little i reckon...

 

cheers so far! :D

neil.

[Henny 0]

G60SC_Stoney, as tempting as that may sound, nah, think I'll pass... ;) :lol:

 

Riley The crank is around about a 90mm throw (or there abouts, 90mm gives 1946cc IIRC) and all I know is that it's out of a passat... :|

 

The sleeves over the gudgen pins are actually fitted into the top of the con-rod (as a small end bearing) to act as a convertor as the con-rod is expecting a 20mm gudgen pin, where my pistons use a 19mm pin. They were properly heated/cooled into place and are of a very high tollerance so shouldn't wear any worse than the original con-rods/gudgen pin combination...

 

The pistons aren't G60 specific 'cos they're 83mm diameter and so are too big for a standard G60 engine! :lol: My pistons were specifically CHOSEN by John so that they don't have to be modified to allow clearance for the valves and so that they give a compression ratio of 9.5:1 which is higher than normal, but not too high as to create a problem with pre-ignition. They are also designed to be used in a FI car, so the thickness of the crown is WELL upto the job, unlike some other pistons I've seen and heard about which have had the crown machined down meaning that the distance between the top piston ring and the crown is virtually nil and that the crown is so thin it'll melt the first time you give it some real stick and get it hot... The only modification they've received is to the skirt well below the lowest piston ring to create a cutout to clear the oil squirters and to balance them and weight match them so all 4 weigh the same ammount (there's now less than 1g total difference on all 4 pistons combined!)

[Riley 0]

 

The pistons aren't G60 specific 'cos they're 83mm diameter and so are too big for a standard G60 engine! :lol: My pistons were specifically CHOSEN by John so that they don't have to be modified to allow clearance for the valves and so that they give a compression ratio of 9.5:1 which is higher than normal

 

ian,cheers :D

 

as for the pistons being non g60 specific :lol: i was meaning with having diffarently sized gudgeon pin,obviously thinking about it now,they are oversized but non g60 based because of using the 90mm crank?

 

i was thinking along the lines of specific oversized g60 pistons...like these but then using the 90mm crank would cause valve clearance issues? mmmmm.

 

any idea's on the standard g60 spec? crank throw etc?

 

neil.

[_leon_ 0]

they are non std pistons since they are oversized. iirc vag state the maximum bore diameter is 82.5mm. However 83mm has been proven to be ok. A lot of people seem to insist that you get your block ultrasonically checked before going out to 83mm.

 

The standard is 86.4mm. The 16v using 92.8mm. The likes of those off the shelf pistons are likely fine when you use the std crank - baring in mind jabba offer the 1870cc conversion therefore retaining the original crank and rods. henny's conversion and ones offered by g-werks etc etc change the rods and crank so this will be considered during piston design. if this isn't quite correct then someone will flag it up soon enough. you'd be best to ask about complete packages offered by various companies and draw your own thoughts/requirements from the information you gather. It takes time to make your mind up as you only want to spend this kind of money once ideally - and like henny already said - you don't want an engine that fails to satisfy or limits your options after a year once your thirst for more kicks in.

 

*mod edit* - Double post removed - Henny

[Riley 0]

yep,good point about the money spending leon.and ps:its just taken me ages to be able to reply to this :?

 

anyway :D

this thread is turning out really good! :D and this is one of the many options im considering (too many options is bad sh1t sometimes :lol: ),but hopefully this is interesting for others too!

 

mmm,so its a case of either a pretty simple rebuild with oversize pistons,and other fancy work.

or going with the ol' saying no replacement for displacement and getting a bit more complicated using longer throw crank/more customised pistons and wotnot...

 

neil.