Car doesn't want to start!! 2.0 16v - Sorted??

[nocrap 0]

useful advice, cheers!

[nocrap 0]

OK, finally managed to get it started but it now misfires.

 

Fuel filter and rotor arm have been changed but still unsure as to whether either has helped because we also swapped the battery over with some massive TDI one that Supercharged had lying around :wink:

 

The odd thing was that the starter motor was working (apart from starting the car) when it broke down, but after i was towed home it just locked every time and all went dim...........

 

oh well i suppose it'll mean taking tomorrow off work :(

[Jim 2]

Was the fuel filter ancient and blocked..?

[Supercharged 2]

Filter was fairly new Jim but was made by 'Fram' who are well known for making filters that wreck engines... I hacksawed it open and it looked fairly clean inside but was different in design to the VAG ones...

 

It's running but i'm not sure what fixed it - could a battery be so bad that it would stop the car from running? it would not crank but was fine after changing the battery - took a while to start tho as the plugs were fouled with fuel and I think the valvers need to build up to full pressure to start unlike the G60 / VR??

 

I had a right game getting the rotor arm off - was areldited on I think!

 

Ran up to temp but very lump - either lack of fuel pressure or electrical fault... another interesting thing was some valve in the metering unit was making a loud whining noise while we were trying to get it to start...

[nocrap 0]

it would not crank but was fine after changing the battery

 

and after cranking the engine by hand a few times....

[Supercharged 2]

and after cranking the engine by hand a few times....

 

Yeah - that rare optional crank handle you've got works a treat!

[Jim 2]

The rotor arm is a PITA. I know I said that molegrips would do it but when I tried to do it on my last valver I was swinging off the damn rotor arm with molegrips and had to resort to getting a freaking hacksaw on it because it was so well glued on.. took about 45 minutes or something insane.

 

So its all up and running now then? Really must swap my fuel filter at some point..

[nocrap 0]

Lol, funny you should say that about the rotor arm as that is exactly what needed to be done.

 

It's up and running but not well, i'll be going back to it after work as i've decided to come in today.

 

Always good to replace the fuel filter especially if its old, but on mine i'm still unsure as to whether it helped due to there appearing to be an electrical problem as well.....ho hum

[davidwort 0]

Have you checked how free the air flap/plunger is in the metering head should be nice and smooth with a bit of resistance, you really need to get the system pressures checked and for that you need a fuel pressure gauge with the right connectors to hook up to the metering head etc., the system should hold several bar I think for at least half an hour after engine switch off.

Does the fuel pump under the car warble (i.e. vary in pitch) they are always noisy but varying pitch indicates a more serious problem, you've also got the lift pump in the tank don't forget, if this fails it puts the main pump under more strain.

Check the resistances of your coil and plug leads too, it doesn't always pick up a problem that might occur under running but can be an indicator.

 

David.

 

 

 

Lol, funny you should say that about the rotor arm as that is exactly what needed to be done.

 

It's up and running but not well, i'll be going back to it after work as i've decided to come in today.

 

Always good to replace the fuel filter especially if its old, but on mine i'm still unsure as to whether it helped due to there appearing to be an electrical problem as well.....ho hum

[nocrap 0]

OK David, fuel pump is noisy but doesn't change in pitch.

 

The engine does misfire at low revs but seems to be fine at higher revs (no hunting, hesitation, etc) still making me think that i've got some funny electrics somewhere.

[davidwort 0]

OK David, fuel pump is noisy but doesn't change in pitch.

 

The engine does misfire at low revs but seems to be fine at higher revs (no hunting, hesitation, etc) still making me think that i've got some funny electrics somewhere.

 

I'd have thought an electrical problem would be worse at higher revs, low rev/idling problems tend to be vacuum leak/idle valve related. Make sure all the crank case breather system is OK and all vacuum hoses and connectors are secure and in good nick, also that the inlet pipes and joints from metering head to throttle body are sealing properly and there are no splits in the plastic/rubber.

The Throttle body may help from a good clean too.

[nocrap 0]

OK will do that, many thanks again

[steveo29 0]

The rotor arm is a PITA. I know I said that molegrips would do it but when I tried to do it on my last valver I was swinging off the damn rotor arm with molegrips and had to resort to getting a freaking hacksaw on it because it was so well glued on.. took about 45 minutes or something insane.

 

next time , set the grips to slightly smaller than the rotor arm and crush it...it will crumble away in seconds

[davidwort 0]

OK will do that, many thanks again

 

bit more info:

 

I seem to remember from the last rolling road day at stealth that if you disconnect the differential pressure regulator connector on the engine side of the metering head, and possibly the temp sensor on the other side, then the engine will run in basic K-jet mode, like a sort of simple get you home mode, the ECU then just uses basic inbuilt settings rather than relying on the lambda probe signal, this will give you an indication that the lamda probe is dodgy if it runs much better like this.

[Supercharged 2]

next time , set the grips to slightly smaller than the rotor arm and crush it...it will crumble away in seconds

Switch to full edit form

 

Stevo - I tried that but it wasn't that brittle, I reckon it had been replaced and re-glued - molegrips were no use so I hacksawed thru it and then chizzle's it with a screwdriver and hammer!! - I then hand to sand the shaft to get the glue off...

 

Checked vac hoses and couldn't see anything obvious but there is a slight noise on throttle so will investigate more...

 

Other strange thing was that all spark plugs had petrol visible swimming about on top when you took the leads out - where is that from???

 

I think the fuel pump pitch does change but not with load, I reckon one is down but which??

[davidwort 0]

...I think the fuel pump pitch does change but not with load, I reckon one is down but which??

 

If the in tank one is not working it's going to put a strain on the under the car one so any wear in that pump or a partially blocked filter will be more noticeable. As long as it's heard buzzing I'd say it's working (the under car one), it's just that every dodgy one I've seen problems occur with starts to get noisy, then starts to warble then eventually dies altogether, the warbling has nothing to do with revs, it'll just do it while the car is sat there idling. Trouble is, the pumps aren't the quietest things at the best of times, but I'd say that the'es a problem on the horizon if it isn't making a continuous unwavering noise!

[Supercharged 2]

David, yeah it's deffo buzzing (loudly) so I think the lifter is shot - I felt the bottom of the tank when we got it running but it's hard to tell if the intank one is working or not as the one on the outside vibrates also...

 

It also runs like it's under pressure...

[davidwort 0]

David, yeah it's deffo buzzing (loudly) so I think the lifter is shot - I felt the bottom of the tank when we got it running but it's hard to tell if the intank one is working or not as the one on the outside vibrates also...

 

It also runs like it's under pressure...

 

s'pose you could disconnect the in tank one (under the back seat?) and see if the main pump changes sound?

[Supercharged 2]

Ah - good idea Mr Wort...

[nocrap 0]

OK guy's will disconnect that after work.

 

On the subject of the strange noise from the throttle.........there is a sucking noise coming from around the 3rd inlet manifold pipe, you can only hear it when the throttle is opened. It isn't coming from around the gasket area but from the back????? Cant pin point it though, but this is the only area around the manifold that it can be heard!

[nocrap 0]

Oh but to add, a knackered fuel pump doesn't account for why i had complete electrical failure which was the initial problem....the mystery continues

[davidwort 0]

OK guy's will disconnect that after work.

 

On the subject of the strange noise from the throttle.........there is a sucking noise coming from around the 3rd inlet manifold pipe, you can only hear it when the throttle is opened. It isn't coming from around the gasket area but from the back????? Cant pin point it though, but this is the only area around the manifold that it can be heard!

 

sounds like a vacuum leak somewhere, if you spray carb cleaner (or WD40 is probably OK) around the area, if it get sucked in through a leak the engine revs will alter.

[nocrap 0]

Does anyone know whats around that area?

[nocrap 0]

Managed to drive home last night without a problem, it might have even been driving a little better than normal. There's still a few strange noises around the engine but the could have very well been there before.

 

I didn't check out the lift pump but for the sake of £20 I'll probably get another one anyway!

 

Many thanks to all for you help, any suggestions for the odd noise would be appreciated.

[Yandards 0]

David, yeah it's deffo buzzing (loudly) so I think the lifter is shot - I felt the bottom of the tank when we got it running but it's hard to tell if the intank one is working or not as the one on the outside vibrates also...

 

It also runs like it's under pressure...

 

Mr Charged, my fuel pump is quite loud although the earlier pump set up is different from the later ones.

 

There is another widget in the fuel system and that is the fuel accumulator. It is inline after the fuel pump but before the fuel filter. It is designed to retain around 3 bar of pressure in the system to enable 'good hot starting behaviour'

 

To check that everything in the fuel system is sealing properly then just turn the ignition key to run and listen to the fuel pump. It should shut off after a few seconds when it has pressurised the whole system. If it keeps running then either one of the NRVs (Non Return Valve) is sticking or broken or you have a leaky injector.

 

Please find attached an overview of fuel system flow on a K-Jet based system - hopefully this will help a bit!