CTWG60 0 Posted March 14, 2007 Ahh Big Valve head Dohh! I'm waiting for the local VAG club to have a rolling road day to see what the actual power/torque characteristics my engine has currently. I have a good idea but it would be nice to know when exactly to change gear to get the best out of the car when doing the 1/4 mile, which I plan doing in the summer at one of the shows. My box was from a '96 Golf Estate Mk3 and has a lot less wear and feels a lot tighter. Trying to turn one drive flange while holding the other in place requires some serious effort. The old CBA box had little to no resistance left in the diff. So you are wanting to fit an ATB code box FD to your box? You would be better just getting an ATB box and having that rebuilt with the peliquin, or am I missing something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted March 14, 2007 Quiet in work today so did these Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_leon_ 0 Posted March 14, 2007 Would be interesting to see how your box copes with the 1/4 mile. Initially I thought the CBA with VR cogs was a good way to go - and probably keeping the 3.6 g60 FD. However, this discussion has changed my mind. For road use the CTN box would theoretically seem an improvement on that once you learn the ratios. I definately want to get a peloquin fitted to whatever box I go with - i meant anti torque bias rather than the ATB gearbox code! getting confusing now! First step is to see the graphs, and decide on what would be most suitable. In respect to the original question - you've answered it - there are other options other than using VR cogs. Think the BBM box is too track orientated? Would it present the same traction issues as the CBA box you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted March 14, 2007 I really don't like this box (BBM CAL). The change to 1st and 2nd does not seem enough and for road use I think it would be horrid but then I think it is a track box so 1st would not get used and 2nd would only be for hairpins so the shorter 3rd would be used alot and 4th is closer. I think I would have to work it all out though and my brain is beginning to hurt. But this graph shows you can get much the same effect using a CDA 16v box. If 5th is an issue for anyone with the CTN box the end plate could be removed and a CDA 5th fitted. More Numbers Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 28.274 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 175.298 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1061 RPM 40 MPH = 1415 RPM 50 MPH = 1768 RPM 60 MPH = 2122 RPM 70 MPH = 2476 RPM 80 MPH = 2829 RPM 90 MPH = 3183 RPM 100 MPH = 3537 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4823 RPM dropping 1377 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 175.298 MPH ****************************************************************************************** Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D CDA 16v 5th Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 25.518 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 158.212 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1176 RPM 40 MPH = 1568 RPM 50 MPH = 1959 RPM 60 MPH = 2351 RPM 70 MPH = 2743 RPM 80 MPH = 3135 RPM 90 MPH = 3527 RPM 100 MPH = 3919 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 5343 RPM dropping 857 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 158.212 MPH ****************************************************************************************** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_leon_ 0 Posted March 14, 2007 heads starting to wobble now - too many options ;) i only use first for starting off so aren't too concerned about that. i dont think i would fit the CDA 5th to the CTN box - it just seems a little surplus to the rest. the ideal i think is to have the CTN ratios split across 6 gears. you would likely get everything then. isn't the ATB+VR1/2 quite similar to the BBM box? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted March 14, 2007 Here is my quaife file just drop it into your quaife folder and overwrite yours and you can have a play. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted March 19, 2007 Here is my evaluation of the CTN box (Please take into consideration my current engine mods) The Gearbox is working fine, shifting is good now but I couldn't say it was any better than the old box. I'll have to rebuild the shift mech under the gear stick I think. As for driving with this box, lets just say Wide Open Throttle acceleration in 2nd gear without any wheelspin (in the dry that is) to 6000+ rpm is my new favorite thing. I can feather the power in faster in 1st gear to about 5000ish rpm before getting wheelspin & having to shift into 2nd gear. But in 2nd gear I can give it FT and get no wheelspin which is fantastic ( repeating myself I know but it's that good). Third goes on for longer and feels pretty much the same as before except I can hit 100mph at a little over 6200rpm, again with no wheelspin. Good for the quarter mile That I'm hoping to do at Santa Pod in April. Fourth is good in slow traffic and feels somewhere between the old 4th and 5th, but is definately closer to the old 4th which is good. Fifth is fine at over 40mph but is noticably slower going from 40-60. Above 60mph is better but going from 80-100 the difference is less noticable. I've had no issues with the box itself mechanically. It feels youthful and stronger. Going from the condition of the origional release bearing it had done low milaege and being from a 1996 estate diesel car hasn't seen much over 4500rpm all it's life. I think it's done around 60k but I am guestimating. Will post QMTs if I don't fluff it off the start line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kongo127 0 Posted March 25, 2007 Good job! :) CTWG60, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_leon_ 0 Posted March 27, 2007 Yeah thats a pretty write up of what that box is like. I'm holding off till next week when I should fingers crossed have dyno readings - and see what kind of curve i get. Been looking at the ATA/ATB boxes more too. Keep us posted with how you get on - cheers for all your help so far - its been encouraging to say the least! thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted April 15, 2007 Just got back from Santa Pod today with the following QMT. Managed to do a 15.1200 sec @ 93.21mph QMT on my first ever attempt but my reaction time was +1.1329. I couldn't better my QMT for the rest of the day but my reaction time did get better. Got to say the weather was perfect and I got no wheel spin at all in 1st gear on my first run which I could not seem to recreate on subsequent runs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junkie 0 Posted April 26, 2007 CTWG60 Man your seriously into your boxes? Think your box sounds good and maybe a good option for me looking at the speeds V rpm etc. If i can get my scanner working and its k with you i will post across my dyno plot for you to look at and see what you think about using your box and any suggestions to what may work better so i can really nail you at santa pod next time lol mate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Yes mate, I'll have some fun playing around with the numbers. Already thinking about a new box setup for my car for when I finally get the 2.0L bottom end sorted out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junkie 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Nice well i shall see if i can sort it this wknd then. What you thinking of now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Well It's basically the 16v CDA with a Diesel Final Drive + a Quiafe LSD (So mega bucks). I don't know if 1 & 2 would be too tall yet but 3rd would see you too 101mph @6200, 4th 129mph and 5th 158mph (on std wheels). So the gears would be nicely spaced out with a good drop in rpm between them. 158mph is a realistic top speed aerodynamically and power wise when running a G60. Cruising speeds would be acceptable. Going to run my box first after bottom-end install and see how it copes with the extra torque. I've got to say, next to a Golf G60 FMIC it's the best thing I've done to the car. I Love the 2nd Gear in this diesel box no torque steer no wheel spin, even when it rained earlier in the week, just superb. And you find yourself using the gear box, which I didn't before, changing down to get the best from the engine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Numbers--------------- Gearbox:- CDA 2L 16V + CTN Diff Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 25.518 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 158.212 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1176 RPM 40 MPH = 1568 RPM 50 MPH = 1959 RPM 60 MPH = 2351 RPM 70 MPH = 2743 RPM 80 MPH = 3135 RPM 90 MPH = 3527 RPM 100 MPH = 3919 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 40.138 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3653 RPM dropping 2547 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 68.121 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 4170 RPM dropping 2030 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 101.289 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4881 RPM dropping 1319 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 128.672 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 5042 RPM dropping 1158 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 158.212 MPH *************************************************************************** Gearbox:- CTN 1.9L D Tyre:- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 28.274 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 175.298 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1061 RPM 40 MPH = 1415 RPM 50 MPH = 1768 RPM 60 MPH = 2122 RPM 70 MPH = 2476 RPM 80 MPH = 2829 RPM 90 MPH = 3183 RPM 100 MPH = 3537 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.061 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 62.550 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 97.393 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4428 RPM dropping 1772 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 136.355 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4823 RPM dropping 1377 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 175.298 MPH *************************************************************************** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaggy 0 Posted May 9, 2007 CTW..., seeing as you are a bit of a "dab hand" on the old Gearboxes.. do you have the info for a Standard Mk3 16v CDA box? I am looking into putting one of these into the Ed1... i am getting fed up with the standard Gear ratios already! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted May 10, 2007 Here you go Gearbox:- CDA 2L 16V Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 21.873 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 135.611 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1372 RPM 40 MPH = 1829 RPM 50 MPH = 2286 RPM 60 MPH = 2743 RPM 70 MPH = 3200 RPM 80 MPH = 3658 RPM 90 MPH = 4115 RPM 100 MPH = 4572 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 34.404 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3653 RPM dropping 2547 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 58.390 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 4170 RPM dropping 2030 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 86.819 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4881 RPM dropping 1319 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 110.291 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 5042 RPM dropping 1158 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 135.611 MPH ****************************************************************************************** Gearbox:- Corrado CBA Tyre:- Michelin all patterns 205/50 x 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Top Gear gives 24.049 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 149.105 MPH at 6200 RPM Engine speeds in top gear:- 30 MPH = 1247 RPM 40 MPH = 1663 RPM 50 MPH = 2079 RPM 60 MPH = 2495 RPM 70 MPH = 2911 RPM 80 MPH = 3327 RPM 90 MPH = 3742 RPM 100 MPH = 4158 RPM Top Speed in 1 gear = 30.359 MPH And changes into 2 gear at 3475 RPM dropping 2725 RPM Top Speed in 2 gear = 54.161 MPH And changes into 3 gear at 3982 RPM dropping 2218 RPM Top Speed in 3 gear = 84.332 MPH And changes into 4 gear at 4407 RPM dropping 1793 RPM Top Speed in 4 gear = 118.642 MPH And changes into 5 gear at 4933 RPM dropping 1267 RPM Top Speed in 5 gear = 149.105 MPH ****************************************************************************************** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaggy 0 Posted May 10, 2007 Thanks man! By the looks of things the CTN box is the one to go for then! the 2L 16v box isnt much better than a CBA in terms of the first few gears.. not sure whether it would be worth the effort.. I am looking at running Approx 250bhp with the ED1... the gearbox i have in it now will be a nightmare...! That Diesel box maybe worth looking into as the long gearing compared to the others is well suited to the Torque of the G60 motor....? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted May 10, 2007 Well yes your absolutely right. The best thing though is how you can get it out of a late mk3 golf diesel and that it has not seen high rpms all it life. The one I have really does a good job of handling the low end torque. You can also get good mpg in 5th, not many changes that make your car faster and save you money. Nice for M'way driving too. I don't think you could do much better for the low cost of a straight box swap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaggy 0 Posted May 10, 2007 Better get looking then...lol :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted May 10, 2007 All you need to do then is get your steering wheel moved to the right side of the car and your laughing........ :lol: . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaggy 0 Posted May 10, 2007 i am actually quite enjoying driving cack handed... luv the look on peoples faces when they dont see anyone on the normal drivers side! hehe Not as bad as i first thought.. easier than i expected it to be, i can definatley live with it ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTWG60 0 Posted May 11, 2007 Off Topic: First time I drove on that side of the car was in Paris!! I pulled out of the hire car multi-story car park straight into the middle of Paris City Centre. Now that was in at the deep end. I didn't know which way was up never mind which hand did what and on what side of the road. Oh yes and we had a tourist pamphlet map to try and find the motorway! Oh to be young and naive again with not a care in the world, or an ounce of common sense. One question I have for you though is how do find overtaking. It's always put me off left-hookers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaggy 0 Posted May 11, 2007 overtaking isnt too bad... least i have the power to be able to do it quickly, as you have to hang back quite a bit to make sure the path is clear... hehe :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
