My thoughts on the Schrick Manifold

[Taggart 0]

But... you are not running it on a std engine, so you can't judge.

 

But if you want to be placated, I agree, don't run it un-mapped on a modified VR6.

[jonrb 0]

going on my experience i just dont know how people can justify buying a schrick and then mapping on top too, a lot of money for in my opinion not much gain.

I can't really comment as I had so many other things done at the same time.

 

However, I did passenger in a Corrado VR6 that had only had the Schrick done with no other mods (that I was aware of - perhaps dr_mat can comment as it was his car) and it hadn't even been mapped either, and it was noticeably stronger at low revs than my (at the time) fairly standard car with just the TB and remap.

 

I really do think there is something wrong with your install if you're seeing no appreciable benefit.

[dr_mat 0]

.. but you don't KNOW what the gain is, because you haven't experienced it!

 

Based on *your* experience I wouldn't want it either, and you're right - you are completely wasting your cash till you get it remapped.

 

The reality is that when the original VSR was shipped from the factory, it came with a chip. VW knew the standard ECU was not capable of running it in all circumstances, and therefore that's just how it is.

 

** - edit - just saw Jon's post. Yes, the car just had the schrick, no other mods at that time, and it was pinking it's nuts off. It's MUCH MUCH more noticeably powerful now it's been remapped.

[VR6Will 0]

But... you are not running it on a std engine, so you can't judge.

 

But if you want to be placated, I agree, don't run it un-mapped on a modified VR6.

 

I wouldn't exactly call it a highly modified engine though...apart from exhaust and filter, everything else is just standard vw parts.

 

and to be honest, i cant see getting it mapped is going to find me an extra 20 odd lbft of torque and a couple of bhp everyone else sees with one of these.

[dr_mat 0]

.. pure speculation till you put your money where your mouth is.

 

We're getting frustrated with you because you're basically saying we're mad, that we're not seeing the effects we're seeing (wanna see my torque plots??) and you're refusing to listen to our reasoning.

 

My COMPLETELY standard VR6 pinked to death in the schrick zone till it was remapped. This is not unusual. Some engines just have more tolerance than others. After remapping I have 199 lbft torque at 3500 rpm.

[NormanCoal 0]

answer a simple question mat - did you see any difference in the characteristics of your engine directly after you fitted the schrick?

[VR6Will 0]

.. pure speculation till you put your money where your mouth is.

 

We're getting frustrated with you because you're basically saying we're mad, that we're not seeing the effects we're seeing (wanna see my torque plots??) and you're refusing to listen to our reasoning.

 

My COMPLETELY standard VR6 pinked to death in the schrick zone till it was remapped. This is not unusual. Some engines just have more tolerance than others. After remapping I have 199 lbft torque at 3500 rpm.

 

as i keep sayin, it wont be mapped with schrick as its only been put on as a test of before and after,

 

im not saying anyone is mad, and certainly not saying anyone is lieing about results they've experienced with a schrick, - this being the main reason why i wanted to try one on my car!!!

 

199lbft at 3500rpm is a nice figure you have there! If you look at my torque graph i posted earlier in the thread i have approx that too WITHOUT a schrick and WITHOUT remap and 214lbft just over 4k!

[dr_mat 0]

What can I say? You have a higher compression ratio than the rest of us, so it makes sense you'd have MORE problems than me.

Yeah, your torque is even higher, but if I can get 199 lbft on my standard engine (bear in mind that's HIGHER than the peak at 4700 rpm), you should be able to hit about 220lbft...

[jonrb 0]

This is pointless thread. I just read the original post again (edit: and also the post you made whilst I was writing this) and I realise now that your VGI is a loaner and you just bolted it on temporarily and expected to get all the benefits with no further effort. These have to be mapped to work properly. End of.

 

If it were yours to keep, then you would have to get it remapped especially as you're running the thin metal gasket which raises compression slightly and therefore is more prone to pinking. You'd just be wasting your time and money running a VGI and metal gasket unmapped.

 

A custom rolling road remap is £250 + VAT at Stealth Racing which is hardly a lot of money.

[jonrb 0]

Incidentally, my setup of VGI, metal gasket, thottle body, Schrick 268 cams, lightened flywheel and remap yielded only 205 lb ft, which was a little disappointing but that was running on month-old 95RON and the car has been running on Super since then. It would be nice to get it RRd again to see what it's really running.

[NormanCoal 0]

This is pointless thread. I just read the original post again (edit: and also the post you made whilst I was writing this) and I realise now that your VGI is a loaner and you just bolted it on temporarily and expected to get all the benefits with no further effort. These have to be mapped to work properly. End of.

 

I think that most people who have been into modifying engines for a period of time realise that you dont get 100% of the benefit by just bolting a performance part onto an engine - by the same idea, in this instance, you would expect to gain something by bolting on a schrick.

 

In this case, Will has seen no gain at all, and I think that is the point of the thread - I dont think that is the norm going on previous results and opinions on this very forum

[jonrb 0]

In this case, Will has seen no gain at all, and I think that is the point of the thread - I dont think that is the norm going on previous results and opinions on this very forum

Indeed. And as I said earlier, I think there is something wrong with his installation if he's seeing no benefit at all (reference my comparison with dr_mat's car).

 

Incidentally, one other thing occurs to me. When I bought my VGI I had to specify whether it was the ODB1 or ODB2 fitment. I presume there isn't some issue here with, say, an ODB1 VGI being used on an OBD2 VR6, is there? Or would it simply not be installable if that were the case?

[VR6Will 0]

so the general consensus is that im not going to see any gain at all fitting a schrick to my engine just because it has a mk4 metal headgasket unless i get it remapped?

 

OR, that the schrick isn't working properly? i still haven't taken it off to make sure the flap is closing fully, thats a job for the weekend.

[Taggart 0]

Incidentally, one other thing occurs to me. When I bought my VGI I had to specify whether it was the ODB1 or ODB2 fitment. I presume there isn't some issue here with, say, an ODB1 VGI being used on an OBD2 VR6, is there? Or would it simply not be installable if that were the case?

No, it's just the attachment of the TB IIRC.

[VR6Will 0]

Incidentally, one other thing occurs to me. When I bought my VGI I had to specify whether it was the ODB1 or ODB2 fitment. I presume there isn't some issue here with, say, an ODB1 VGI being used on an OBD2 VR6, is there? Or would it simply not be installable if that were the case?

 

Correct, it is an OBD2 schrick manifold, only difference being for fitment of the different throttle body, and the fitting for the idle stabilization valve on OBD1

[dr_mat 0]

so the general consensus is that im not going to see any gain at all fitting a schrick to my engine just because it has a mk4 metal headgasket unless i get it remapped?

 

OR, that the schrick isn't working properly? i still haven't taken it off to make sure the flap is closing fully, thats a job for the weekend.

 

Both are possible .. it's impossible for us to say from our armchairs..!

 

The point is, the engine is more freely breathing in that rev range, but your ECU isn't capable of putting enough fuel in. Therefore it pinks, therefore the ignition retards, therefore you get sucky performance - you're running below stoichiometric, so that's that. It's not JUST that you have a thinner HG, it's just a combination of things..

 

Of course, it's also possible the valve is sticking open (mine does this sometimes - it's due to get this fixed up at Vince's at some point when I get around to it).

 

But we don't know .. !

[NormanCoal 0]

And the answer to my question Mat?

[RS VR6 0]

Is that aimed at me? Because if it is then I'm confused as I have a Corrado VR6. :?

 

Sorry...didn't mean to confuse you. It was aimed towards the OP.

 

I think that the VGi is more of a "purpose" part. If torque is what your looking for, the VGi is a bargain compared to boring or stroking your engine.

 

Like I mentioned earlier...the VGi gave me a much needed kick in torque from 2500 to 4k. Fifth gear acceleration picks up so much faster. My 70 to 100 is :shock: now...especially with the Schrick 260/264.

[jonrb 0]

And the answer to my question Mat?

...has already been given.

 

Mat noticed a big difference in the car despite it being unmapped and pinking, a difference that I also noticed when I went out for a passenger ride with him.

[NormanCoal 0]

And the answer to my question Mat?

...has already been given.

 

Mat noticed a big difference in the car despite it being unmapped and pinking, a difference that I also noticed when I went out for a passenger ride with him.

 

Without trying to flame here - since my question was posted, Mat hasnt answered it..........my point was that if there was a difference between fitting and before remapping then IMO Will is quite justified in having his opinion that he doesnt rate the Schrick if no discernable difference can be detected on his particular engine.

If no difference was noticed from fitting before the remap then the situation would be exactly as Will has described

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Just a hunch, but I suspect the flap isn't closing and it's behaving like a standard manifold, hence not feeling any difference.

 

With the flap shut, it really is difficult to not notice the difference as the intake pulses hit 6psi at 3500rpm. I noticed a big difference on my engine when shoving it on and doing nothing else, but two things I didn't like about the Schrick:-

 

1) Torque at and below 1500rpm is 10lb/ft less than the standard manifold.

 

2) The 4000 rpm switch over is quite pronounced which bugged me.

 

Actually, can you feel the engine response dip at 4000rpm? If not, then the flap is definitely not working properly.

 

At the end of the day, the only way to prove if the Schrick is making a difference or not is to stick it on the rolling road. You can't arue with the numbers.

[Supercharged 2]

You should feel it tho Kev, even the VSR fitted without the controller and chip made a noticeable difference!!

 

Also got to remember that VW always recomended 98 ron fuel for the VR...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Eh? Are you talking about Will's car? FFS, how many other people are in on this?! LOL! :lol:

[Supercharged 2]

? No, was talking about Gazman's car with the VWM VSR (before the electronics were done at Stealth)

[jonrb 0]

Without trying to flame here - since my question was posted, Mat hasnt answered it....

I wasn't trying to flame either - it's just that earlier in the thread Mat did say that he had noticed a big difference after just bolting it on, despite not having had it mapped and despite it pinking. I can't see what more of an answer you need to your question? Or am I missing something? :?