Let's se who can figure this out.

[Kaktus 0]

Hi Guys.

Let's see if anybody on this forum is clever enough to figure out my problem.

Ok so about a month ago my car broke down and i had to be towed home.

 

Just give you a quick update on what exactly the symptoms are.

The car doesn't start at all. The only way of getting to start the car is too FULLY turn the dizzy away from you, if one stand in the front of the car, which means the dizzy must be turned clockwise if looked from the side. This and the throttle body must be opened completely, only then does the car starts and then it only JUST idle on 500rpm's. It won't pickup any rev's at all, it will stay at these rpm's and hesitate to die... If the throtlebody is been closed the car will struglle to idle for 3seconds or so and then it dies. And to get it started again is an absolute fukken mission. I should also mention that it doesn't always start this way, but we found that if we do get the car to start this is the only way to do so.

 

What that tells us is that someting is retarding the timing right? So everyone i've asked about this told me to check my cam timing. And i swear to god we must have checked it about 40 times. No lies. The cam timing is def. spot on..... I even went so far as to adjust the cam timing one tooth both ways of tdc but then i can't even get the car to start on any ignition timing setting. So that rule out that my cam timing could be a tooth out. It def. isn't.

I'm going to try and make you a list of things we replaced and tested so far.

1. Plugs

2. Plug wires

3. Dizzy itself

4. Dizzy cap

4. Coil plugwire

5. Coil itself

6. We unplugged all senors on the head just incase one tells the ecu to fuk with the ignition timing.

7. Checked all wires and earth wires. Must have checked this about 20 times aswel :)

8. Like mentioned above, i checked the cam timing about 40 times... no lies. The cams itself has also been put in the right way, def. no doubt there.

9. We replaced the fuel filter and fuel pump. Haven't replaced the lift pump as it seems like the fuel is getting through to the injectors.

10. I also replaced that other unit that sits right above the WUR. Forgot it's name now.

11. Check the vacuum lines for leaks. Must have checked them atleast 15 times aswell:)

11. Probably a few other things we tested, which i forgot now.

 

My questions to you guys are. What else can cause these symptoms? Could it be the ecu itself? Or maybe that modulater unit thingy-bob next to it? What exactly is that modulator thingybob? Can a vacuum leak cause the car not to start at all. If so how can i test for leaks with a car that doesn't even run?

 

Apologies for the post but i'm really starting to get desperate as everything different mechanics told me to do has failed.

I'm not taking the car in to a specialist as i don't trust any of the local okes to work on my car.

 

Happy Dubbin

Hugo

:wink:

[dubcharger 0]

Sounds like ur pulling ur hair out, if its deffo getting fuel through i can only think of dizzy itself but like u say uv tried a known good one??

[Kaktus 0]

Thanks for the advise but like i mentioned in the first post, the dizzy was replaced by another one.

[andy 0]

Firing order.....are you 100% sure you put the leads back on in the right order?

[Skimask 0]

Kaktus - sounds like a problem I had with my valver. In my case it was the crankshaft pulley bolt was knackered, this sheared the keyway on the pulley and allowed the timing to go out by a few teeth. You'll have to align the timing again!! and see if there is any play on the pulley - do this by placing a socket on the crankshaft bolt and gently move it back and forth. The play will be barely noticeable if it is the problem.

[Kaktus 0]

Andy the firing order is def. the right way around. If i change any of them around i get backfire into the fuel distributor.

 

Skimask. Sorry i forgot to mention that i removed the crank pulley to check for this exact problem you described. The keyway and key is like brand new. No wear and tear on it.

 

Guys could the tci unit cause this?

[Tim_R 0]

AFAIK the ecu type box is a static ignition map with alterations based on vacuum which tend to be reliable and the TCI is a transistor that switches and amplifys the signal, I'd say if that wasn't working properly then you'd not get a spark at all.

 

I think from what have said you have an air leak somewhere and its big enough to allow enough air in to upset the air/fuel ratio

 

If you take the airbox off and gently push the metring head air flap up while the engine is being turned over can you get the car to start and run, this is with the ignition in the normal place, you may need to have the throttle slightly open to get it to start, this lets more fuel through to the injectors to allow for extra air getting in. If that works then its a case of checking all pipes and hoses.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Classic KR non starting issues include :-

 

Cold start injector not firing - Usually dudd or missing earth

 

ISV seized solid - Whack it with a hammer

 

Base ignition timing WAAAAAY off - Needs to be 6 deg BTDC

 

Base CO WAAAAAY off - KRs best at 2.0% CO.

 

Missing or split vac line to "ECU"

 

Ignition amp not working

 

 

When you replaced the dizzy, you didn't put it back 180 deg out of phase did you? I can't remember if there's an offset slot on the front cam to prevent this or not, as it's been a long time since I've owned one!

 

Did you replace the hall sender with the new dizzy? Do they come with a new one?

 

When you say fuel is getting to the injectors, remember CIS runs at 75psi at the metering head..... there may not be enough pressure? Even if the engine was heavily retarded, if there's fuel pressure there, the engine would still rev, but run extremely rich....

 

Sounds dizzy / timing related to me.... but on a forum, that's like asking a Doctor to diagnose a headache without seeing the patient.

[Kaktus 0]

Hi Tim

I will give that a try tonight. I booked the car in at VW for tomorrow morning aswell

[Kaktus 0]

Classic KR non starting issues include :-

 

Cold start injector not firing - Usually dudd or missing earth

 

ISV seized solid - Whack it with a hammer

 

Base ignition timing WAAAAAY off - Needs to be 6 deg BTDC

 

Base CO WAAAAAY off - KRs best at 2.0% CO.

 

Missing or split vac line to "ECU"

 

Ignition amp not working

 

 

When you replaced the dizzy, you didn't put it back 180 deg out of phase did you? I can't remember if there's an offset slot on the front cam to prevent this or not, as it's been a long time since I've owned one!

 

Did you replace the hall sender with the new dizzy? Do they come with a new one?

 

When you say fuel is getting to the injectors, remember CIS runs at 75psi at the metering head..... there may not be enough pressure? Even if the engine was heavily retarded, if there's fuel pressure there, the engine would still rev, but run extremely rich....

 

Sounds dizzy / timing related to me.... but on a forum, that's like asking a Doctor to diagnose a headache without seeing the patient.

 

Hi Mate.

Thanks for the input.

I have 2 questions though. What colour is the vac line, and how do i test it? Also how do i test for a faulty ignition amp?

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Check the white temp. sensor's connector and small teminals,sometimes they can get dislodged,covered in oil etc.

Check the camshaft pulley's small half moon hasn't broken,make sure the chopper disk inside the dist. hasn't got bent by locating springs when turning over engine with dist. cap disconnect.

Have you checked the ecu's main connector for green corrosion?,sticking AFM arm/plate?(carb cleaner works well on gunge),injector spray pattern good?,fuel pressure up to spec.?have you tried 'hot wireing' the cold start injector?,rock-hard injector main seals leaking air?...

Let us know what happens.

[Kaktus 0]

Hi guys.

Managed to get it up and running last night. You guys won't believe what it was. It turned out that the shaft inside the dizzy managed to break loose from it's "head"

Replaced the part with another dizzy i have and everything is sorted. The funny thing is that i replaced the dizzy with another one and the symptoms was the same. What a bugger, but atleast she's back up and running.

 

Thanks for the help guys

Hugo

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Nice one!!

 

I have heard of that happening, but you wouldn't think to check that on a new dizzy though!

[Kaktus 0]

Nice one!!

 

I have heard of that happening, but you wouldn't think to check that on a new dizzy though!

 

So true.

We did supect the dizzy but since we replaced it with my old one and it was the same we moved on with the troubleshooting. :oops: