Whats a ball park figure to get an engine bored out?

[dirtytorque 0]

As per subject.

 

This does not include engine removal/re-fitting costs.

Just the actual work on the engine itself.

 

Or does it depend greatly upon other variables?

 

 

scuse if the questions seems a tad naive :?

[double-6s 0]

Think it's only about 150 quid to get it rebored mate. Then a fair bit more for everything else you'll have to do!

[dirtytorque 0]

Do u mean up rated parts pistons/oil pump/cam belt etc or extra work to the engine?

 

 

thnks in advance.

 

:study:

[Blue_Joe 0]

What are you looking to do???

 

I have an engine for sale that is already done to the most extreme you could take it and only done about 5000 miles and includes teh ECU with a custom remap by chipwizards. If you want to know more I can let you know all the details, but essentially using a G-Lader with 65mm pulley it was pushing 246bhp and 247 lb/ft of torque. Thats about the best torque I have seen from a G60.

[dirtytorque 0]

Yeah,i've seen you thread..

 

 

I guess basically I was heading off in the direction that you had got to.

"litre big valve head stump puller.

I wanted an engine that retained its g60ness(if there is such a thing) but at the same time gave me more power.

 

However while I save i'm trying to educate myself on what is involved.

 

Those are impressive numbers i'm just not sure if its the best way to spend my potential 3k.

I don't mean that in a negative way towards you.

i just don't know enough yet to make an informed decision.

[Blue_Joe 0]

Yeah,i've seen you thread..

 

 

I guess basically I was heading off in the direction that you had got to.

"litre big valve head stump puller.

I wanted an engine that retained its g60ness(if there is such a thing) but at the same time gave me more power.

 

However while I save i'm trying to educate myself on what is involved.

 

Those are impressive numbers i'm just not sure if its the best way to spend my potential 3k.

I don't mean that in a negative way towards you.

i just don't know enough yet to make an informed decision.

 

How could it not be the best way to spend.

 

If you look at what we went through to build that engine, I've basically taken all the heartache out of it for you. AND more importantly the cost!!!

 

You can't just bore out the block to get to where I got to. It was a year long engine design and build with alot of learning processes along the way - even for an engine builder like Jim at Racepower that has been doing it for 50 years. The pistons alone in mine were custom designed one offs from JE that cost as much as whatI'm selling the engine for! Everything in that engine has been custom engineered to get the absolute best out of it!

 

I know it's blowing the trumpet of that engine - but it really is engineering at its best (Racepowers work!)

[junkie 0]

Fair comment bluejoe.

 

If he wanting 2l etc G60'ness etc more power etc then thats the way to go with yours.

[jonny-5 0]

I got a bare block re-bored for £60, that's mates rates though!

[dirtytorque 0]

I appreciate that there is more to it than just boring the engine out.

Bottom line is i don't have 3k at the moment.

So I would only wasting your time to say "yeah i'll have it"

If and when I had the cash now,you would have it tomorrow.

[Yandards 0]

Completely OT but nice avatar IHIG60.

 

As for the engine bore any half decent machine shop should be able to do it but I would try and find one that has been recommended.

 

If you are really chasing silly power then you need to be looking at lots of light shinny stuff that mostly comes from the US. Cranks, pulleys, flywheels etc. Head wise http://www.cncheads.co.uk is the only place to go but that would be £1200 of your budget gone already.

[dirtytorque 0]

A cnc head was going to be my next mod,but then I started to get other ideas. :evil:

I was looking at the T4 blocks until I read some of the comments made about it on this forum.

So then I thought about maybe building a 2 litre short engine as a project in the winter and to understand more about the engine design process etc.

Silly power is not my ultimate goal,although of course I want a faster car at the end of it.

I would also like to feel I have learnt something at the end of it too.

 

I'm considering TSR's 1.8 -> 2 litre bore and build kit.!?!!!

[junkie 0]

Cheers Yandards but why is it OT out of curiosity? lol

 

Ive not checked but sure think the TSR kit uses the T4 block that we said bad stuff bout....

[dirtytorque 0]

nah,

 

http://www.tsr-performance.com/pages/boreandbuild.asp

 

cheers.

[_leon_ 0]

don't want to sound like a salesman here - but maybe have a chat to Darren from Gwerks - somewhere else to chat abotu engine options. You should try and chat to as many people as possible about engine builds.

[Dubsingh 0]

dnt wana burst your bubble im rebuilding on a budget...there no such thing lol even just going over size 2 on the original piston has cost me a a fair bt to do. i got lucky and managed to get holf of a bored and honed block with cuatom pistons for 150 quid....the original invoice for the pistons shows over 300 quid. im sure when i asked about the bore and build its i was told id need to adda nother 100 quid to it as they are for standard gti engines not g60.

 

so far i would say iv spent 500 quid and the engine istogheter and the head is done too but i ported and polished it my self (a pain in the ass) i reckon another 200 quid to cover other little bits and ill be done

[dirtytorque 0]

Hi dubsingh

 

you havn't burst anything my friend.

I know its not a leggo set i'm building :)

 

Thnks for your input its appreciated.

 

I just wan't a realistic assessment and,yes _leon_ thats good advice I plan to do as much as that as possible.

 

grazie.

[_leon_ 0]

i always thought for a bottom end rebuild and all the bits you'd want to do while the opportunity is there you're looking min 1500, more like 3500 by the time you've finished as you will want to replace a lot more than just the pistons and rings... you could start looking at rods, pumps, pulleys, belts, head, pipes, mounts, sump, clutch, flywheel, gearbox! your basics though are pistons and rings, boring, bearings etc, balancing, gasket sets, bolts... Its not long unfortunately before you realise you're better to do it all at once to save you hassle later. how much you do yourself can lower the costs significantly. time is another factor to consider however...

[dirtytorque 0]

i'm prepared to go without the car for a while.

I'm going to attempt to do it all myself and just go slooooooooooooow.

i'll have to drive my 1.2 litre corsa in the mean time :oops:

 

Anyway at the moment its pie in the sky,but yes once the engine is in bits it makes sense to rebuild.

 

I can always sell a kidney.

I need to sit down and think about what I actually want from the end product.

[Blue_Joe 0]

you're looking min 1500, more like 3500 by the time you've finished

 

Hence why I said that really, if you want a power car tehn i've taken the hassle and cost out of it!

 

But if you want to do it yourself then get proper advice as already stated and steer clear of TSR

[Jim 2]

To be fair TSR are under new management now and they seem to be pretty good. Supercharged went to their open day and had a good chat with them at Inters.. seem to be a new, enthusiastic and knowledgeable bunch!

[dirtytorque 0]

you're looking min 1500, more like 3500 by the time you've finished

 

Hence why I said that really, if you want a power car tehn i've taken the hassle and cost out of it!

 

But if you want to do it yourself then get proper advice as already stated and steer clear of TSR[/quote:c715d]

 

yeah i kinda want to do it myself as silly as that may sound.

Good luck with selling yours.

Someone will rip your arm off for it sooner or later.

[CTWG60 0]

I get exactly what you are saying DirtyTorque. You don't just want to hand over 2-3k and say thank you very much for my big bore/stroke engine and drive off into the sunset. You want to be involved in the process and understand how and why!

 

I'll start you off. The biggest problem with producing more than a 1900cc low compression (8:1/9:1) engine is the block height (The height from the centre of the crank to the gasket surface of the block, about 220mm). If you increase this height by using a different block you then run into all sorts of other problems. This is why Blue_Joe spent so much on his pistons other than the fact that he wanted an 83.5mm bore.

 

So you don't want to be using an 83.5mm bore as long term reliability may be a question and it's expensive. So to get to 2ltrs you need to use a 92.8mm crank and at least 82.5mm pistons. If you use a 92.8mm crank your going to have problems with clearing oiljets and the sides of the crank case again expensive to sort out so maybe a PG block is not the best starting point. Also if you use the 92.8 crank you cannot use the G60 rods which are 136mm, apart from possible problems with the bigend bearings rotating, your crank to rod ratio will be 1.465 which is way too low and will be lumpy and your engine won't last very long. So you will have to use longer rods. I believe Blue_Joe used 144mm rods so he only had 29.6mm left for the compression height of the piston as far as I can work out (220-(92.8/2)-144=29.6). Considering a least 10mm of this would be required for half the piston pin only 19.6mm are left to contain 3 piston rings and a nice deep dish in the piston which is not much.

 

So I would suggest you start with an engine block that already has a 92.8mm crank and the same deck height of 220mm and then start thinking about getting some low compression pistons and I think custom rods will be a must with no no less than 140mm in 0-0 length. I'm currently in the process of working all this out. Just saving up now before I go convince an engine builder to build want I have come up with.

 

Good look with it.

[Blue_Joe 0]

I get exactly what you are saying DirtyTorque. You don't just want to hand over 2-3k and say thank you very much for my big bore/stroke engine and drive off into the sunset. You want to be involved in the process and understand how and why!

 

I'll start you off. The biggest problem with producing more than a 1900cc low compression (8:1/9:1) engine is the block height (The height from the centre of the crank to the gasket surface of the block, about 220mm). If you increase the this height by using a different block you then run into all sorts of other problems. This is why Blue_Joe spent so much on his pistons other than the fact that he wanted an 83.5mm bore.

 

So you don't want to be using an 83.5mm bore as long term reliability may be a question and it's expensive. So to get to 2ltrs you need to use a 92.8mm crank and at least 82.5mm pistons. If you use a 92.8mm crank your going to have problems with clearing oiljets and the sides of the crank case again expensive to sort out so maybe a PG block is not the best starting point. Also if you use the 92.8 crank you cannot use the G60 rods which are 136mm, apart from possible problems with the bigend bearings rotating, your crank to rod ratio will be 1.465 which is way too low and will be lumpy and your engine won't last very long. So you will have to use longer rods. I believe Blue_Joe used 144mm rods so he only had 29.6mm left for the compression height of the piston as far as I can work out (220-(92.8/2)-144=29.6). Considering a least 10mm of this would be required for half the piston pin only 19.6mm are left to contain 3 piston rings and a nice deep dish in the piston which is not much.

 

So I would suggest you start with an engine block that already has a 92.8mm crank and the same deck height of 220mm and then start thinking about getting some low compression pistons and I think custom rods will be a must with no no less than 140mm in 0-0 length. I'm currently in the process of working all this out. Just saving up now before I go convince an engine builder to build want I have come up with.

 

Good look with it.

 

Was very true what you said about my build - topped with we had to manage to take extra cc's out of the valve pot in order to increase the about of room for compression, this had to be done absolutely precisely, was watching them measure the cc's in the pots using liquid to get them exact!!!

 

It was a HUGELY complecated build and one that Racepower stated that they would never do it again. They just wanted to do it to say that they had done it!!

[dirtytorque 0]

I get exactly what you are saying DirtyTorque. You don't just want to hand over 2-3k and say thank you very much for my big bore/stroke engine and drive off into the sunset. You want to be involved in the process and understand how and why!

 

I'll start you off. The biggest problem with producing more than a 1900cc low compression (8:1/9:1) engine is the block height (The height from the centre of the crank to the gasket surface of the block, about 220mm). If you increase this height by using a different block you then run into all sorts of other problems. This is why Blue_Joe spent so much on his pistons other than the fact that he wanted an 83.5mm bore.

 

So you don't want to be using an 83.5mm bore as long term reliability may be a question and it's expensive. So to get to 2ltrs you need to use a 92.8mm crank and at least 82.5mm pistons. If you use a 92.8mm crank your going to have problems with clearing oiljets and the sides of the crank case again expensive to sort out so maybe a PG block is not the best starting point. Also if you use the 92.8 crank you cannot use the G60 rods which are 136mm, apart from possible problems with the bigend bearings rotating, your crank to rod ratio will be 1.465 which is way too low and will be lumpy and your engine won't last very long. So you will have to use longer rods. I believe Blue_Joe used 144mm rods so he only had 29.6mm left for the compression height of the piston as far as I can work out (220-(92.8/2)-144=29.6). Considering a least 10mm of this would be required for half the piston pin only 19.6mm are left to contain 3 piston rings and a nice deep dish in the piston which is not much.

 

So I would suggest you start with an engine block that already has a 92.8mm crank and the same deck height of 220mm and then start thinking about getting some low compression pistons and I think custom rods will be a must with no no less than 140mm in 0-0 length. I'm currently in the process of working all this out. Just saving up now before I go convince an engine builder to build want I have come up with.

 

Good look with it.

 

brilliant,thnks this is exactly what I was after.

Lots to think about.. choices to be made and money to be saved. 8)

[_leon_ 0]

And after reading about this (and thinking about it time and time again myself) - why not just fit a BAM 1.8T and have potentially more power from a standard engine? The end cost can't be too far apart.