what makes the 1.8T so tuneable ???

[CTWG60 0]

BAM found in the following

 

BAM,

R 4 Gasoline, 1781 cm

[Walesy 0]

It might be worth baring in mind that your insurance goes on the car the engine was removed from when you've got a conversion, so it could work out cheaper to go for one from a seat if possible.

[CTWG60 0]

I'd like to see a torque curve of a standard BAM/APX against a tweaked BAM/APX engine that puts out 278lb/ft with just a chip remap.

[dirtytorque 0]

Nope as the G60 engine is 8v - so reflecting on that age chart - its been used for years and years

 

i'd agree,it was a variation of a theme.

I'd like to see a torque curve of a standard BAM/APX against a tweaked BAM/APX engine that puts out 278lb/ft with just a chip remap.

 

That would be interesting..

[rado-steve 0]

Yep and Yep, go with BAMbi....

 

You can buy an off the shelf MBE ECU and loom for that engine (for retro fitting into other dubs, MK2s, MK1s, Corrados and the like) and it makes a nice 265hp with 278lb/ft torque.... and that's with the original mechanicals. Now, imagine that much oomph in a 880kg MK1 shell, or a 1040Kg MK2 shell.....jesus!

 

Why go aftermarket when VAG stuff works just as well and is already there! I've heard the BAM engines aren't the best for going down the IHI/GT28RS route?????

 

You'll be looking at £2K for a complete BAM, My AUQ motor was £1K complete! With a remap I'll only be 40bhp shy of a BAM motor So I'd rather have saved the grand and Uprated my Brakes and Suspension!

 

Can't deny whichever motor you go for it's an awesome conversion!

[rado-steve 0]

Yep and Yep, go with BAMbi....

 

You can buy an off the shelf MBE ECU and loom for that engine (for retro fitting into other dubs, MK2s, MK1s, Corrados and the like) and it makes a nice 265hp with 278lb/ft torque.... and that's with the original mechanicals. Now, imagine that much oomph in a 880kg MK1 shell, or a 1040Kg MK2 shell.....jesus!

 

Why go aftermarket when VAG stuff works just as well and is already there! I've heard the BAM engines aren't the best for going down the IHI/GT28RS route?????

 

You'll be looking at £2K for a complete BAM, My AUQ motor was £1K complete! With a remap I'll only be 40bhp shy of a BAM motor So I'd rather have saved the grand and Uprated my Brakes and Suspension!

 

Can't deny whichever motor you go for it's an awesome conversion!

[_leon_ 0]

It won't cost 2k for a BAM setup. You don't need the gearbox and all the engine parts. Plus changing to a cable throttle body makes life easier. So does using standalone management - easier for upgrading later aswell. But horses for courses.

[rado-steve 0]

It won't cost 2k for a BAM setup. You don't need the gearbox and all the engine parts. Plus changing to a cable throttle body makes life easier. So does using standalone management - easier for upgrading later aswell. But horses for courses.

 

Not if you only want the block I spose it won't! Oh yeah, the BAM's will have a 6 speed box too, Junk that as the ratio's are all wrong, plus it's fecking huge!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've wondered about the loom and DTA - when buying such as engine - do you need the original loom (to get modified?) or do you get a modified one with the DTA package? Been told you get a base map for the engine which could be tweaked to marry up to the setup - but on a fairly std engine, shouldn't be far out.

 

Hi mate, all you get with the DTA (and most other ECUs) is the ECU, software, comms lead, ECU harness plug/s and pins, so you would have to add some wires to the ECU plug yourself to make an unterminated loom, but it's dead easy.

You get all the pin outs and wiring diagrams in the manual.

 

Or you can buy one in from places like QED, but they charge a big sum..... the VR6 loom for the DTA for example is £500+VAT, but it's a work of art! 8) They do one for the 1.8T aswell I believe.

 

You can either splice the standalone loom into the original wiring (which is good as you know VW wiring is generally reliable) or make up a whole new loom to connect all the sensors to the DTA.

 

On mine I spliced into the original loom at the Motronic ECU plug so that I could swap between DTA and Motronic fairly easily.

 

The base maps are only sample maps and may not run the engine at all, but I can offer anyone contemplating a standalone advice on how to get it up and running. It's not difficult once you've learned the software 8)

 

As for using the stock management, I'm always for that first and foremost as they spend millions getting it right, but individual circumstances and applications often dictate the use of a standalone, which is why the MBE package is good for retrofitting as it's plug and play. Some folk don't want the hassles of wiring up the OE secondary controls and sensors and prefer a simpler loom that won't throw up fault codes if a clutch sensor isn't plugged in for example....

[_leon_ 0]

Kev - thanks - thats a good explanation :)

 

I take it when you say make up a whole new loom - you mean get one from the likes of QED? (I tried searching for them - can't find them - any urls handy?)

 

I read that the stock management requires modifying due to the immobilser, and i don't want to have to change the clocks and barrel etc. Revo do it - but its expensive at around £500 and doesn't offer what DTA/Emerald etc can. With the option of doing more work to the engine at a later date - isn't standalone simpler?

 

Like you say, omitting the likes of secondary controls that don't exist can only be a good thing - keeps things clean and simple. You're not likely in that situation since you've kept the original engine.

 

It might be worth finding out prices from different places for a new loom then deciding whether to get the loom when sourcing an engine or not. Any help with QED?

 

Cheers :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Vince at Stealth is your man for the QED looms, I don't know of any websites or contact details for QED unfortunately. Their looms are fully terminated with OE plugs and the wires are all professionally bound, the correct length for the engine and the correct wire gauge. To do a really good loom like that takes days, hence the cost, it's mostly labour!

 

A loom like that also removes any chance of wiring errors, which can not only damage the ECU, but also have you chasing your tail for weeks tracking down an electrical fault!

 

If you do make up your own loom, you can get all the various wires with different colour tracers, plugs, sockets, pins etc from places like - http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk

 

What you will need if you do a new loom, or splice into the 1.8T loom is complete VAG wiring diagrams for the BAM, otherwise it takes 10 times as long! You also need to know in advance if you will be running Sequential or batch injection (different wiring) and external coil amps etc.

 

The knock and MAF sensors will be deleted and you'd be better off with a cable throttle imo. All you'll need to worry about is crank and throttle sensors, injection and sparks and possibly the VVC if you want it, which the DTA can control and also the cam sensor if you want sequential injection, so yep, you would be simplifying the setup and also keep coil driving, boost control etc under the control of the DTA as it's more reliable than having seperate 3rd party controllers etc. You would also be able to keep the stock clocks etc, but you will lose the MPG function, not that you'd want to see that with a turbo on full chat anyway :lol:

 

Yep, future tuning and upgrading is easier with the standalone and if you get the DTA S80, you can switch between different maps. It even has a GM E85 sensor controller, so it will switch between petrol and alcohol maps automatically the moment the sensor detects the fuel types.

 

It's all cool stuff 8)

[rado-steve 0]

 

I read that the stock management requires modifying due to the immobilser, and i don't want to have to change the clocks and barrel etc. Revo do it - but its expensive at around £500 and doesn't offer what DTA/Emerald etc can. With the option of doing more work to the engine at a later date - isn't standalone simpler?

 

Like you say, omitting the likes of secondary controls that don't exist can only be a good thing - keeps things clean and simple. You're not likely in that situation since you've kept the original engine.

 

It might be worth finding out prices from different places for a new loom then deciding whether to get the loom when sourcing an engine or not. Any help with QED?

 

Cheers :)

 

The Reason REVO charge soooo much for the immobiliser defeat is that they remap it too IIRC! The guy who did the loom for mine charges roughly £350-£450 to do the complete loom and immobiliser defeat! He'd done the loom for VRbanna's twin engined Rado too!

 

Mine is running the secondry airpump and the twin lambda's plus the VVT and DBW so it's all as VAG intended! Using Stock clocks too with a bit of help from Jabba's conversion thing!

 

The reason I plumped for VAG Engine management was having VAG-Com i can just plug it in and read the fault codes if I have any probs! Plus I've seen quite a few DTA/Emarald ECU'd 1.8T's that Cold start crap, they cough and splutter, throw neat petrol out the exhaust because there's no cold start map, £hundreds spent on RR set-ups etc!

 

I thought, Nah bollox VW Spent Millions on their management so it must be pretty well sorted!

[Phil K 0]

No complaints with my 1.8T BAM engine (fitted in the later 225 Cupra R's) and it RR'd 224.4hp recently at SRR running on BP Ultishidt so all is healthy too...

 

I get a good 30mpg to and from work and it's been plenty quick enough for the last 6 months and 18K miles although I will be getting a re-map soon as it can't hurt to have a little more can it? :lol:

 

Anyone had any experience of AMD re-maps with a BAM engine? (I know they have ceased trading before anyone points that out for me ;) )

[vwdeviant 0]

No complaints with my 1.8T BAM engine (fitted in the later 225 Cupra R's) and it RR'd 224.4hp recently at SRR running on BP Ultishidt so all is healthy too...

 

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've seen quite a few DTA/Emarald ECU'd 1.8T's that Cold start crap, they cough and splutter, throw neat petrol out the exhaust because there's no cold start map, £hundreds spent on RR set-ups etc!

 

There are numerous reasons for that and 99% of the time it's down to botched installs and/or poor mapping, rather than the ECU itself. For example, I've seen quite a few 1.8T owners turn the injectors round 90 degrees for neater wiring, but it totally fcuks the spray pattern.

All DTAs and Emeralds have cold start maps and they are far more adjustable than the stock ECU's, but it's purely down to the mapper and engine installer to get these things right......but the finger of blame is always pointed at the ECU/Mapper, despite, for example, the customer hand twisting together the MAF wires (in the wrong order) and taped them up loosely. It's these kind of botches that cost people £100s on the dyno in fault finding and rectification. The actual mapping process is quite straight forward and not that time consuming.

 

I thought, Nah bollox VW Spent Millions on their management so it must be pretty well sorted!

 

Indeed, which is why when you get a standalone running better than the stock ECU (and it's easily possible) you can rightly feel proud that you achieved, by yourself, something that VW and a team of 100s spent millions on ;-)

[_leon_ 0]

Vince at Stealth is your man for the QED looms, I don't know of any websites or contact details for QED unfortunately. Their looms are fully terminated with OE plugs and the wires are all professionally bound, the correct length for the engine and the correct wire gauge. To do a really good loom like that takes days, hence the cost, it's mostly labour!

 

A loom like that also removes any chance of wiring errors, which can not only damage the ECU, but also have you chasing your tail for weeks tracking down an electrical fault!

 

I'll be doing that :)

 

The knock and MAF sensors will be deleted and you'd be better off with a cable throttle imo. All you'll need to worry about is crank and throttle sensors, injection and sparks and possibly the VVC if you want it, which the DTA can control and also the cam sensor if you want sequential injection, so yep, you would be simplifying the setup and also keep coil driving, boost control etc under the control of the DTA as it's more reliable than having seperate 3rd party controllers etc. You would also be able to keep the stock clocks etc, but you will lose the MPG function, not that you'd want to see that with a turbo on full chat anyway :lol:

 

The knock sensor would be removed due to the addition of the DTA ECU? Not really sure what the MAF is and its role. About the VVC - I'm sure I've read its only on some later engines - not sure if its in the BAM. Someone will probably correct me soon. And you're right - I can live without the MPG reading. Its all wrong in my G60 now anyway due to the work done.

 

Yep, future tuning and upgrading is easier with the standalone and if you get the DTA S80, you can switch between different maps. It even has a GM E85 sensor controller, so it will switch between petrol and alcohol maps automatically the moment the sensor detects the fuel types.

 

Major draw to the S80 is the ability of storing (and switching between) two maps. We're not all on track every day of the week ;)

 

Thanks again Kev :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The knock sensor would be removed due to the addition of the DTA ECU? Not really sure what the MAF is and its role. About the VVC - I'm sure I've read its only on some later engines - not sure if its in the BAM.

 

The knock sensor wouldn't be used as the DTA doesn't support it :lol: It's the most complex ECU algorithm to write and many standalones don't support it and the ones that do, do a poor job of controlling it. Besides, knock detection via microphone sensors is ancient and too slow. It's better to use Exhaust Gas Temperature monitoring instead as it's instant and you get a visual indication.

 

The MAF measures air flow, but the DTA use a MAP sensor instead, which is more reliable.

 

Pretty sure late BAMs have VVC, but it's very simple. Just a hydraulic ram that preloads or reduces load on the cam timing chain. The DTA can control that.