Possible ways to improve G60 intake system

[boost monkey 0]

Reduce heat in the boost pipework:

 

Change the route they take - rerouting boost pipes away from the larger hot spots under the bonnet (i.e. engine itself (as much as possible) radiator especially when fan is on)

 

Tricky to implement as pipes are made of thermosetting plastic and as such are not ductile. They have been moulded to shape as a factory part and can not be bent without the risk of fracture. Replacement pipes possible but expensive.

 

Reduce thermal conduction - reducing the amount of heat the boost pipes absorb will reduce intake air temps which will increase charge density into engine inlet.

 

Fairly simple to improve. Factory pipes can be coated or painted with heat resistant or reflective materials to reduce 'heat soak' into pipework. Recommended VHT paint in white or silver (plastic primer possibly required). Could heatwrap pipework with metal foil which would reflect heat back into engine bay. Replacement pipes possible but expensive.

 

Reduce heat in inlet manifold:

 

Reduce thermal conduction - reducing the amount of heat the manifold absorbs will reduce intake air temps which will increase charge density into engine.

 

Phenolic inlet manifold gaskets: Resists cylinder head temperature conducting into the manifold. As a result, the air temp sensor will run cooler and you will have cooler air going into the ports. Available from G-Werks, £call.

 

Spacer plate between manifolds: Helps keep the exhaust manifold radiating heat into the inlet, causing extreme heat soak and intake temps upwards of 50deg C. DIY job, probably use some ally plating (3mm) to shroud the exhaust manifold. *Potential VW standard part from another car here…*

 

Lag inlet / exhaust / both manifolds: Lagging manifolds helps to keep their heat in (or out as the case may be). Lagging available from many shops, £call. With regards to the exhaust manifold, lagging this would help the excavation of exhaust gases from the combustion chambers on each cycle as hotter gases move quicker than slower ones. By keeping the exhausts heat inside the exhaust system and not radiating out into the engine bay some gains are to be made, although doubtful whether they will be noticed or not.

 

Increase efficiency of Standard Intercooler:

 

Standard checking and servicing of intercooler is crucial to maintain its peak (standard) possible performance. Ensuring jubilee clips are tight, and pipes have not deteriorated is a good place to start. Checking internals of IC also possible but the presence of foreign objects inside it would point to a problem elsewhere in the intake system.

 

 

That's about it really, just some lunchtime thoughts on how to improve the standard parts with a view on reducing heat and increasing performance with only a small outlay for parts. Anything incorrect, feel free to mention!

 

J

[boost monkey 0]

Have intentionally left out anything which makes changes past just replacing pipes, i.e. REAL engineering stuff as this is literally just my musings from lunch.

 

Would be fun though, wouldn't it? 8)

[flusted 0]

the standard g60 boost pipes are just gay full stop. they have so many bends and right angles they most be so poor at flowing

[boost monkey 0]

I see.

 

do you run gay pipes? any engine bay shots?

 

what is a twin inlet charger anywho?

[flusted 0]

i made all my boost pipes from different bends of 2.5 stainless exhaust! mostly from an rs turd. i have twin intake on the charger by running 2x cone filters, 1 each side of charger

[sim0n_parker 0]

but to run twin pipes dont you need to take of the boost return?

so what people are saying is....

that if you redo all the standerd boost hoses with polished and silicone hoses and keep the bends to a minimum and away from as much heat as possible this will help boost flow? am i correct in saying that? but if you redo the boost pipes dont you need to get one to house (is it the Co??) pot thing?

 

chears

simon

[flusted 0]

yes,but in the end you prob better just buying the bbm hoses which are all alloy madrel bent i believe.

[Yandards 0]

The standard G60 intercooler is really not up to the task, even in this countries delightful climate, IIRC the max inlet temp for the cooler is around 55 degrees C, rubish really.

 

As with all mass production engines of this era there are a lot of things that can be improved just be decreasing the manufacturing tolerances; knife edging the TB and gasket matching the inlet and exhaust ports on the head will see an improvement in both throttle response and available power.

 

All of the suggestions you made will help keep boost temps down. As for the age old debate about deleting the boost return and adding another inlet then yes it will lower charge air temps, especially on a car with a smaller pulley, but you then need to be spraying lube into the charger to keep it running properly.

 

Best solution would be to use a twin inlet job (here) and incorporate another pipe line with a flapper valve in it that runs from the boost return into the same line as the second air feed. This way when the boost return is open at the TB end the boost goes back to the charger, when you go WOT then the boost return is closed at the TB, the flapper valve blocks the boost return line and the twin inlet air side is open allowing cold fresh air on demand.

 

As for pipework, less joins and as importantly less sharp turns, will reduce the energy lost through drag and turbulence. The plastic pipework also flexes under boost pressure so again this is more energy wasted. Metal pipes are available as a direct replacement in kit form for the G60 (Here) a CO potentiometer 'bung' that can welded into some pipework of your choice(Here) or a complete upgrade kit for the front end including hoses, pipework, intercooler and slimline fan (Here) Other options include mounting a cooler from a Golf G60 utilising a Rallye U bend, although I am still not convinced of the charge air doing a 170 degree U turn at its point of highest pressure and temperature, or an RSR type outlet instead of plastic silencer box.

 

IMHO cone filters of any description in the engine bay are bad, the reason behind this line of thinking is all about heatsoak again, an expossed cone filter will suffer more with heatseak than an enclosed airbox. BMC type carbon cans are a much better solution.

[CTWG60 0]

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[flusted 0]

yeah i made my own for £25, drops inlet temps about 6 degrees

[sim0n_parker 0]

aqua mist is a good option, but alot of people refuse to map a engine with this included (they will map but just not using aquamist) this is beacuase if they map it with the aquamist, if you run out of water there is quite a high risk that you could do engine damage.

 

flusted how did u make urs? would you mind sharing?

[flusted 0]

there should be a thread on here somewhere called "flusted diy water injection"

 

I basically used a pump from a headlight washer bottle fed through a fuel filter to a cold start injector.

It worked fine for a good 6months before the injector became clogged.

Ive now replaced the injector and its still working fine

[Yandards 0]

Best way to reduce air temp I would of thought would be aquamist, just been reading the PDF files found on this page.

 

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/cp.html

 

apparently fitting the water jet into the outlet end tank of your intercooler gives the best results as the water will absorb any heatsoak as the air moves through the pipework, manifold and head.

 

Think with water injection is that you only want it working some of the time, usually at the top end of the rev range, and the heat soak has already occured before the injection is on. It will obviously lower boost temps but is really a way to stabilise the boost temp at the top end to prevent pinking rather than a means to reduce them accross the entire rev range.

[flusted 0]

yeah mine kicks in at about 8psi and instantly drops it 6deg

[CTWG60 0]

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[flusted 0]

but that costs big bucks.

[Yandards 0]

but that costs big bucks.

 

I also would not want to be completely dependant on the 'mist kit for engine stability either, top end is ok as if it goes wrong you can stay off the revs but otherwise its a bit too much of a compromise.

[flusted 0]

yeah i know what your saying.

 

Problem is nearly all decent mods cost money.

[Yandards 0]

yeah i know what your saying.

 

Problem is nearly all decent mods cost money.

 

Yup but, you can get some fairly nice gains in both throttle response and power with just a dremmel and some time.

[sim0n_parker 0]

so where would you dremel then? the in let manifold and head?

[flusted 0]

ive ported everything i possibly can inc cutting my inlet manifold open and doing the inside! just finished doing my own charger aswell

[CTWG60 0]

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[flusted 0]

 

my mate welded the inlet manifold back up for me

[CTWG60 0]

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[flusted 0]

thin cutting disc and a grinder.

 

my mate welded it up easy aswell.

 

Its good to bolt the throttlebody on it when its open and you can see loads of lumps n bumps that can come out.

I also opened up the ports on the inside a bit and shaped them the direction of the airflow