What springs fit later style top mounts?

[Jim Bowen 1]

after fitting the weitec kit on my 1995 corrado and having to use the old style top mounts, i've decided i don't like the arrange, looked crap as it went on and the new top mounts seem a far better arrangement.

 

what springs can i buy to replace the fronts with and that work with late top mounts?

 

i have the weitect shocks and presume any spring should fit these?

[Yandards 0]

Er, the late top mounts will fit any car, its the top spring plate that causes the problem. Later cars had a smaller diameter one although you can get Pi made springs that will fit the smaller later diameter spring plates.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i have late top mounts and early ones at home, earlys are on car

 

the weitec springs had a larger diameter coil at the top so late spring plate just fell through, so used early plates, then found i also need early mounts.

 

i want a spring that i can use late plates & late mounts with, as the arrangement of the early stuff doesn't seem right to me

[Jim Bowen 1]

are Pi springs ok? i spose there's only one way to find out :lol:

 

can i buy springs in pairs?

[Lufbramatt 0]

ive just got hold of a set of PI springs for my passat and they have the small diameter top coil for the later style top caps+mounts.

 

my car has the early top mounts, which isnt really an issue as they were gonna get replaced anyway, its the spring caps im having trouble with finding. :(

[W3RKD 0]

As yan says its only the top plate that changes. the top mount stays the same. We use the mk3 mounts on everything from mk2 chassis onwards

[Jim Bowen 1]

well i couldn't seem to get a decent fit using the early spring plate and late top mount, the late plate and late mount totalled about 2" overall height, the early plate and late mount came out over 4" high and early plate and early mount also seemed too high to me, not a very tight fit.

 

so i'm going to get Pi springs and fit late plates and late mounts, hopefully this will fit a bit more snuggly, also i have some strange noises when turning which i can only put down to the mounts/plates arrangement

[Jim Bowen 1]

i really need to get a photo of all these bits to show what i'm on about :lol:

[Jim Bowen 1]

went for Pi springs in the end and they seem to fit much better

 

i found that with early spring plates it was compressing the spring too much for my liking

 

this seems far better now

 

[Lufbramatt 0]

cheers for that photo, i just happened to be looking for exactly that!

 

got my JOM top caps this morning, which seem to have the correct shape for the late top mount but annoyingly dont seem to fit the small PI top coil properly. The diameter of the top cap is about 105mm. :bad-words:

 

could you do me a favour and mesure the diameter of your top cap? it looks like it fits the 92mm top coil a lot better.

 

cheer, matt.

[Jim Bowen 1]

i like to take pics etc is always useful for everyone, i'll be getting proper ones of the weitec springs and early plates when they off the car, hopefully this weekend

 

i specifically asked for the latest springs for a VR and to make sure they have the smaller coil, and they deffo seem right, the other springs the plate would fit on, but the slighest knock and they would become dislodged and fall through the coil

 

i'll try and remember to measure it tonight, but they are standard VW late spring plates, i've just painted them

[Lufbramatt 0]

think the jom top caps might be going back on ebay then :(

 

the top caps ive got are bigger than the spring coil so no chance of the springs falling through, they just dont sit properly. hmmm.

[Jim Bowen 1]

at the moment i have

 

early top mounts

late top mounts

 

early spring caps

late springs caps

 

springs to suit early

springs to suit late

 

:lol: so hopefully can show each scenerio

 

the early plates are massive compared to the late, in diameter and height of the things, can see them in this pic. (shiny metal bits)

 

assembled (early plates & early top mounts)

[Jim Bowen 1]

diagrams of each assembly

 

early strut

 

late strut

[Jim Bowen 1]

and yes my bumpstops are in the wrong place :lol:

[Yandards 0]

OK I will try again :)

 

There are 3 types of spring cap fitted to the Corrado, 2 types of top mount, 2 types of top mount retainer, 2 types of bump stop and finally 3 types of bellows.

 

The 3 types of spring cap are as follows, early (all G60s and non 6 cylinder cars up to chassis number S-000-051 produced up to 31/07/94) early VR6 (up to chassis number R-000-898 around 31/08/93) and late (All VR's from chassis number R-000-899 until end and 16v/8v cars from chassis number S-000-052) The early spring caps are designed for use only with the early top mounts. The early VR spring caps can be used with the late top mount and are 105mm in diameter. The late spring caps are to be used with late top mounts and are 92mm in diameter.

 

The top mounts either come in early (all G60s and non 6 cylinder cars up to chassis number S-000-051 produced up to 31/07/94 ) or late (VR6 from introduction and from chassis number S-000-052 from around 31/07/94 until end on the 16v and 8v models) The early one is a great big beefy thing that had a metal disc on the bottom.

 

The 2 types of top mount retainer (sits on engine bay side on inner wing to stop suspension falling out) are again specific to early or late kit as per the top mounts above and must not be interchanged.

 

The two types of bump stop are also early and late and once again conform to the same revision points as the top mounts and cannot be interchanged.

 

The 3 types of bellows follow the same pattern as the spring caps and although you might be able to get them to fit it is better to get the correct ones.

 

Now for the why.

 

The reason that the late spring caps are both smaller in diameter and height was to allow for the introduction of lateral force compensating springs, these were supposed to improve ride comfort, despite the late spring cap being lower in height due to an increase in coil spring length the car actually sat higher on the later suspension setup. The suspension strut length was not changed and remains constant for all cars, in fact the late 16v/8v cars used identical springs and dampers to the VRs on some cars.

 

So to summarise, most aftermarket springs will be of a 105mm upper diameter as such you will need to order the following spring cap 1H0 412 341 to get these to fit cars built after the dates listed above. If you wish to fit later style top mounts to G60s etc then you will need to order a top mount(357 412 341A), a spring cap(1H0 412 341), an axial grooved ball bearing(1J0 412 249), a top mount retainer(357 412 319 B), a nut (N 022 150 1) and finally a threaded bush (N904 988 01).

 

The only spring manufacturer that I am aware of that makes springs in a smaller diameter to suit the late spring caps is Pi. If you want to fit those springs (assuming you are using a VR as a base that is an early model within the constrants listed above) then you only need a new spring cap 357 412 341 A. If you wanted to fit those to a car using an early suspension setup then just use the info above for G60 etc and change the spring cap number for the one listed directly above.

 

Hope that clears all that up!

[Lufbramatt 0]

Yandards- legend. Thanks very much for that info, things make sense now! 8)

[Lufbramatt 0]

just a quick note to the above info, the spring cap for 92mm springs and vr6top mounts has been superceeded by a mk4 golf part. The new number is 1j0 412 341. Got all my new stuff today and the golf 4 part fits perfectly.

[paul20v 0]

OK I will try again :)

 

There are 3 types of spring cap fitted to the Corrado, 2 types of top mount, 2 types of top mount retainer, 2 types of bump stop and finally 3 types of bellows.

 

The 3 types of spring cap are as follows, early (all G60s and non 6 cylinder cars up to chassis number S-000-051 produced up to 31/07/94) early VR6 (up to chassis number R-000-898 around 31/08/93) and late (All VR's from chassis number R-000-899 until end and 16v/8v cars from chassis number S-000-052) The early spring caps are designed for use only with the early top mounts. The early VR spring caps can be used with the late top mount and are 105mm in diameter. The late spring caps are to be used with late top mounts and are 92mm in diameter.

 

The top mounts either come in early (all G60s and non 6 cylinder cars up to chassis number S-000-051 produced up to 31/07/94 ) or late (VR6 from introduction and from chassis number S-000-052 from around 31/07/94 until end on the 16v and 8v models) The early one is a great big beefy thing that had a metal disc on the bottom.

 

The 2 types of top mount retainer (sits on engine bay side on inner wing to stop suspension falling out) are again specific to early or late kit as per the top mounts above and must not be interchanged.

 

The two types of bump stop are also early and late and once again conform to the same revision points as the top mounts and cannot be interchanged.

 

The 3 types of bellows follow the same pattern as the spring caps and although you might be able to get them to fit it is better to get the correct ones.

 

Now for the why.

 

The reason that the late spring caps are both smaller in diameter and height was to allow for the introduction of lateral force compensating springs, these were supposed to improve ride comfort, despite the late spring cap being lower in height due to an increase in coil spring length the car actually sat higher on the later suspension setup. The suspension strut length was not changed and remains constant for all cars, in fact the late 16v/8v cars used identical springs and dampers to the VRs on some cars.

 

So to summarise, most aftermarket springs will be of a 105mm upper diameter as such you will need to order the following spring cap 1H0 412 341 to get these to fit cars built after the dates listed above. If you wish to fit later style top mounts to G60s etc then you will need to order a top mount(357 412 341A), a spring cap(1H0 412 341), an axial grooved ball bearing(1J0 412 249), a top mount retainer(357 412 319 B), a nut (N 022 150 1) and finally a threaded bush (N904 988 01).

 

The only spring manufacturer that I am aware of that makes springs in a smaller diameter to suit the late spring caps is Pi. If you want to fit those springs (assuming you are using a VR as a base that is an early model within the constrants listed above) then you only need a new spring cap 357 412 341 A. If you wanted to fit those to a car using an early suspension setup then just use the info above for G60 etc and change the spring cap number for the one listed directly above.

 

Hope that clears all that up!

top job that helped me too many thanks

paul

[Jim Bowen 1]

yes, certainly got mine sorted out now 8)

[paul20v 0]

hi

in addition pi springs and vogtland spring use the late style top spring plate , so i have a set or genuine spring plates early type if you no any one needs some still in packet 1ho 412 341 (105mm) cheers

[Yandards 0]

hi

in addition pi springs and vogtland spring use the late style top spring plate , so i have a set or genuine spring plates early type if you no any one needs some still in packet 1ho 412 341 (105mm) cheers

 

Didn't know about the vogtland springs coming in the later narrower diameter spring size, thanks for that.