engine bay tapping noise - its running now!!

[fla 9]

i'm losing the desire to sort this out tbh... Just spent the whole day checking circuits, opening connectors, undoing tape on cable looms and harnesses but with no luck.

 

In a nutshell, the 6mm cable to the relay panel is fine. But when connected to the panel it shorts to ground. With the ignition switch in the on position the next connector terminal then shorts to ground.

 

On the cooling fan, the red cable white stripe shorts to ground.

 

I've opened the following plus some more i cant remember, but with no luck to the short:

 

main ecu loom

abs loom

auto ecu loom

tb connector, vent valve connctor

coilpack

connctors below rear driver side engine mount

MAF

load reduction relay removed

aircon relays removed

auto box all connectors removed

spark plug leads

inlet mani temp sender

blue, yellow & black temp senders

crank & cam senders

other cable across front of car

fan connector

4rad sender

fan control module (both connectors)

starter & solenoid

alt

aircon pump

ABS pump (all 3 connectors)

 

How much would the car be worth as is - i am pretty pi$$ed off now with it. It is no longer enjoyable.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Hasan,can you take me a good clear pic of all the battery cables/leads that go to each terminal ? im still sure you have a neg on a pos,its difficult to offer advise over the phone and like this bud.

 

Would it not be best to get a electrition on the job?

[fla 9]

I'll get some pics for you tomorrow James. Yeah, i guess i'll have to call an auto electrician, although i dont have a lot of faith in them. Does anyone know one they can recommend in the NW London area?

[zak 0]

if you havent fixed it by the following weekend i could pop round and see if a fresh pair of eyes make a difference, we could compare the wiring to my car if need be?

[fla 9]

sounds like a plan Zak, dont think i will be making any more progress with it tbh, i'm totally stumped right now. Just cleaning and treating teh leather at the moment, stripped most of the cabin out so trying to rattle proof and sound proof as much as poss. Hugely frustrating to say the least. I'll give you a bell some time today.

[zak 0]

Hassan nice to see you again, glad we were able to make some progress. Hope to see the car back on the road soon!

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

did you sort it Zak?

[zak 0]

yes managed to sort out the shorting issue, it was the wiring to the starter that was causing the shorting. After it was wired correctly we re connected the battery and everything was fine,

[fla 9]

Zak, many thanks for coming over. Yep, electrics sorted. Its always useful to have a fresh perspective but it doesnt help if you try and be too clever yourself....like i was :oops: . The 'shorting' i reported was actually a normal setup as Zak pointed out and we confirmed the same 'short' on his car. After this the battery is mullered, it charges in about 2 hours and then dies in 1 minute of turning over.

 

Anyway, result there, the engine started after a few turns.

 

BUT and it really is a big but, the dreaded tapping noise is back and there does not appear to be any oil reaching the head. This is really strange as i turned the sandwich plate bolt around to ensure the oil flow into the tappets when the engine was out, and the oil flow was superb. Since reinstalling the engine I have just tightened it up marginally. I'll be removing the bolt tomorrow, turn it around again and recheck, but unfortunately may ditch the mocal and put it back to crappy normal as i dont want to go through this again. Who else has fitted an external cooler and how did yu do it?

[pete_griff 0]

before you start it again, disconnet the coilpack and wind it over on the starter - watch to see if the oil pressure light goes out, or if it continues to flash for a good indicator...

 

also how did you fit the new mocal cooler - are the hoses coming off the top or bottom of the cooler. it's possible, if they are coming off the bottom that the cooler might be be getting completely filled due to gravity (maybe...) and causing a bit of air in the oil system???

or am in talking complete bollards?... (in all honesty i'm unsure as i've never fitted a cooler before, but that could possibly be an issue. i'll be fitting a cooler to mine shortly when i fit the new engine and i'll be making sure the lines come in/out of the top, to ensure no chance of air in the system) hopefully someone with more knowledge than me could help you out there...

 

also could the tapping be a sticky tappet? - if the car has been stationary for a while, one or two might be sticking. mine did for a while until i warmed it up on it's proper first run after doing my head gasket - then it was fine after that...

 

 

god luck sorting it all anyway buddy

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

I would also fit back the standard cooler for now then get the engine running right,the cooler kit you got did you get the threaded tube to screw into your original housing?

 

Glad your electrics are sorted mate....getting somewhere now :tongue:

[fla 9]

I'm glad you concur on that James re the old cooler. I did get the modified extension bolt with the kit. What surprises me though is that when i turned the engine over out of the bay the oil reached the tappets just fine after about 3 seconds after i turned the extension bolt around. Why has it stopped now? I'm sure tightening it will not have made any difference?

 

Griff, i thought of that re the tappets but i lightly greased them and then poured some oil over the top prior to dropping them in.

 

Will do some trials today and see what happens....

[fla 9]

Even with the oil oil to water cooler there is still the tapping noise so obviosuly there is something stopping oil flow to the head.

The oil pressure relief valve in the head (top left corner) may be an issue. When i refitted this i may have tightened it too much. Would this affect oil circulation? If i loosened this so it were almost loose would this cause any operational issues? Apart from that, i cant see why the oil wouldnt reach the head. When the sandwich plate was taken off i did lose some so obviously the oil pump is running and oil is being lifted from the sump. Plus the pump has been stripped and cleaned up.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

you sure the head is getting no oil? is the chain slapping about? most builds i do need to have a good run out to get rid of any trapped in,the top end does not flood with oil as cos of the restrictor.

[fla 9]

I see. I'm comparing it to the amount of oil in the tappets when the head was exposed, albeit without the sparks (so no compression). At that time, the oil came out of each tappet each time it was depressed. I suppose 'sloshing' is an exaggeration, but yesterday in the head there were literally one or two droplets of oil, i would have thought that since the oil had reached the tappets before surely they should reach there again after startup? I'll try and post some pics shortly taken through the oil filler cap. What do you think about my hypothesis on the relief valve?

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

The relief valve could be stuck open on the pump reducing the pressure,so can worn shells ect,did you take out the restrictor in the block that feeds the head?

[fla 9]

OK i think i've got my wires crossed here :? the pump relief valve is ok, for sure. Whereabouts is the restrictor that feeds the head? I assume it must be accessible when the inlet mani is removed, but with the head in place, otherwise i wouldnt have got oil there in the first place? Is this the small spline headed screw in the block? I cant remember if this can be accessed with the head on or does the head have to be removed - i really hope not :(

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

OK i think i've got my wires crossed here :? the pump relief valve is ok, for sure. Whereabouts is the restrictor that feeds the head? I assume it must be accessible when the inlet mani is removed, but with the head in place, otherwise i wouldnt have got oil there in the first place? Is this the small spline headed screw in the block? I cant remember if this can be accessed with the head on or does the head have to be removed - i really hope not :(

 

The restrictor is in the block and is only assesable with the head off,do you have oil pressure? is the light on the dash going off? do you have theshaft in from the intermidiate shaft to oil pump,i know these are daft questions mate but better check first. :wink:

[fla 9]

Actually the oil pressure light on the dash is not going off (i mistakenly thought the water light was the oil press light) so it seems oil pressure to the sender is okay. When i removed the sandwich plate some fresh oil dripped out so its getting that far at least. yes the driveshaft from teh intermediate shaft is connected - thought about that too but then i realised if oil was moving then the pump HAD to be connected.

I'll take the inlet mani off and have a look. If i disconnect the coilpack connector and the fuel pump relay (which one is this?)and take the sparks out can i still crank the engine over from the ignition?

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

disconect the coil pack and remove the fuse for the pump or clamp the supply to the rail,but aslong as you dont have spark you will be ok,i would remove the plugs to help it spin over fast.

[antonio_b12 0]

disconect the coil pack and remove the fuse for the pump or clamp the supply to the rail,but aslong as you dont have spark you will be ok,i would remove the plugs to help it spin over fast.

 

When your building up the oil pressure, remember to add a little throttle otherwise when you start the car up again, it may pop with all that fuel.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

All you need to do is pull the crank sensor. That then cuts the injectors and coils.

For extra measure, pull relay 167 and the pump won't work either.

 

Agreed with James, lift out the spark plugs aswell to speed up the cranking.

 

Hasan, that little ball socket in the rear left corner of the block is a non return valve. That and the pump's gears themselves keep the oil feed path filled with oil for quicker pressure build ups when starting.

 

It doesn't really matter how far up or down you've threaded it in, but usually it's just below the head gasket.

 

You know that S shaped copper pipe that comes from the pump and bolts to the underside of the block? That's the main oil feed. It goes throught the filter, lubes the lower tensioner, crank and main bearings etc, then travels up to the head (through that ball valve), along the gallery to the tensioner bolt, then out into the tappet galleries, pumps them up, then out into the head casting and pours back down to the sump via the chain access holes.

 

If you press on a tappet with the cam lobe facing north, does it squidge? If it does, it's empty. It should be solid.

 

As James says, it takes a surprising amount of time to build up pressure. As said already, the pump also traps oil for a faster pressure build up, but if you've stripped your pump, it'll be like starting from scratch and you'll need to give it at least 60 seconds cranking to build up pressure as the pump doesn't actually move oil that quickly at all. It's purely the squeezing it through small holes that builds the pressure.

 

Whilst this is happening, don't be alarmed by the front cam flapping about. That will tighten up once the tensioner builds pressure.

 

Soak the tappets in fresh oil, crank it over for 60 seconds and see what happens. If the oil light still doesn't go out, you've got a major problem. Obviously you will need to do this with manifolds and rocker cover etc all removed.

 

The pressure light measures the oil pressure across two points and if at least 1 bar isn't achieved, it'll light up. The fact the oil is getting as far as the filter housing doesn't really answer much I'm afraid. It's getting that far, but maybe you just need to crank it more :D

 

I've got a

[fla 9]

We're kindo of there :clap: :clap: :clap:

Firstly, i'd like to extend huge thanks to Zak, James, Roger, Haywire and everyone else who helped, guided and basically kept my entusiasm going. The tapping has finally gone, although in my paranoia i did remove the mani and rocker cover to check the oil flow, plus i tried it with the old oil cooler and the sandwich plate. I took some film of it as it didnt appear to be improving. I'll pop them underneath for anyone who wants to see a VR head turning over.... (they're too big as mpegs, can anyone tell me how to sort these out?)

After what seemed like hours the tapping reduced, i revved it a little and let it idle for another 3-4 minutes after which there was pretty much no more noise. Opened the oil filler cap and the oil was splashing around, but even then there was some noise. Left it a while longer and finally result.

 

The exhaust manifold is leaking so the bolts need tightening there - but the next issues are all minor compared with this.

 

Flushed the block out a couple of times, water was still a bit manky. Refitted the hoses to the crack pipe and just about managed to mount the rad, aircon rad and fans. Its damn tight in there, i can tell you!

 

Engine speed wasnt coming down so i loosened the dashpot - a bit too much as when i tried to start it it died immediately. Again a minor point. Hopefully fit the front end back this weekend and then swop the suspension over and connect my driveshaft.

 

The ABS light is on so the sensors will need to be checked and cleaned as necessary. The leather is doing well, most of the muck has been cleaned off, i've repaired the driver side bolster and cover. Passenger seat needs a little more of a clean and condition. Back seats just need to be conditioned.

 

Carpets have been shampooed and smell quite nice now...

 

Soundproofing has gone in partially - needs to be finished. Then i'll give it a good manicure. Phew...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hurrah, that's some good news to start the weekend with :D

[antonio_b12 0]

Sounds like your nearly there fla When its sorted give it a proper blast, that will put a big smile on your face :D