engine bay tapping noise - its running now!!

[fla 9]

will hopefully be installing the chains this weekend, thanks to Zak for sorting that one.

 

One concern. I recently instlled a mocal and binned the existing cooler. At the same time, teh head suffered from a lack of oil, possibly due to blockage somewhere in teh lube system. I will be cleaning up the oil pickup screen, but is there any other way that the oil circuit can be checked for flow, from the sump, to the pump, through the engine, through the sandwich plate and back to the sump? I doubt the pump will have failed as it looks like a very sturdy gear pump.

[fla 9]

As my father told me last week, 'dont expect anything to be simple on this car', needless to say i was more than over optimistic with getting the chains changed this weekend.

The auto box is off, and my goodness is it heavy, i'd say 60-70kg at least. Now, the torque converter and flywheel are attached but i dont know how to get them off. Does it just pull off, like as if it is on a splined fitting? Bentley is useless here, there is no mention of how to remove it. Maybe a pic from ETKA or another guide would be a help. Thanks.

[fla 9]

Anyone?

[Roger Blassberg 0]

might be worth calling an auto transmission specialist, Hasan. I've no idea

 

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'm sure Stealth have worked on an auto VR before, they'll know.

 

As for checking the oil circuit, one way would be too remove the cam chain, remove the cams, remove the tappets and turn it over.

 

You should see oil coming out of little holes inside the tappet holes and also from a hole at the chain end of the head which feeds the tensioner bolt.

 

As there will be no flow resistance, pressure will be reduced too, so I'm not sure if your crank journals will run dry or not. I've never tried that myself, just thought it might work :-)

 

Maybe try it on the old block before taking it out?

 

Don't discount the pump because it 'looks' OK or is quite new. They can often get a bit of grit stuck in there which seizes the pressure relief valve closed (excessive pressure), or open (no pressure).

 

You can take out the pressure relief valve in the VR's pump and inspect it. I would do that personally.

[fla 9]

I'm sure Stealth have worked on an auto VR before, they'll know.

 

Gave them a call - its been a while since even Vince worked on an auto and i'll need to access the bolts from underneath the block, That means tipping the engine on its side and rotating the torque converter in steps to open each bolt. Then it pulls off. Or so he said....

 

Where is the pressure relief valve on the pump Kev? I can pull the sump guard off when the engine is on its side and have a look.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You'll see it on the side of the pump, can't miss it ;-)

[fla 9]

I bet, in fact i'm almost 100% sure that this was the cause of the problem. No doubt i'll give the pump a thorough check and replace any bits as necessary. Just want to turn the corner ans start the closing up process. I do envy all you guys driving your motors, now that the weather is beginning to improve too.

[fla 9]

removed the oil sump and sure enough there were bits of plastic (from teh guide) and some small metal chunks sitting there. as the bores are clean, i can only assume the oil fitler saved things, so will be rather sparkly right now :shock:

Anyway, as the engine is in total pieces (apart from teh bottom end) i'm thinking of doing teh swop to a manual, so the auto box may be up for sale soon (someone here had a problem with theirs, if i recall). Just wondering if anyone has any pics of the clutch line routing, or any others of the general manual setup? Zak i might need to see your car again for a weekend :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Was it like a metal dust, or clearly distinguishable chunks?

 

Sometimes normal bedding dust (bits of bore honing and piston ring etc) never completely go because the sump drain plug is above the bottom of the sump. The pump can pass most of that into the filter unscathed, but bigger chunks of debris can jam the relief valve.

 

Check the bottom of the plastic oil filter housing. Any debris in there will be what passed through the pump. The heavier chunks tend to hang around in the sump.

 

If your lower chain snapped, I'd expect there to be bits of metal where the chain wrapped round on itself and whacked the block etc maybe?

 

Bits of plastic and tensioner material, for sure, you'll find that in most VR sumps :-)

 

The bores and crank journals will be fine as the filter is downstream of the pump and filter housing, so the poor pump will die before the block does....although oil starvation or over pressure tends to kill head components and / or blow oil out of the crank seals. Which is what your engine suffered. Lower chain snaps - no drive to the pump - overheated cams and tappets = welding themselves together!

 

Good move on the manual. It's a fair bit of work tbh, but it'll be worth it.

[antonio_b12 0]

auto to manual :thumb right:

[fla 9]

How do you remove the pressure relief valve? There is an off-centre hole in the cap, and according to Bentley is tightened to 40Nm. How does this come off? I would want to disassemble teh pump, clean it all up and refit, if ok. btw, how much is a new one? Yes, it was clearly distinguishable chunks, unfortunately, from the broken cam cap.

 

Looking at Storms guide to doing teh manual, it doesnt seem any worse than getting the engine out....famous last words; Haywire, Roger, Zak expect fairly frequent phonecalls soon :)

Antoniob12 any pointers on the conversion?

[antonio_b12 0]

Sorry Fla, not sure if i can be much help with the auto to manual conversion, but the only think i can say is with the manual option your enjoy the higher revs. 8)

 

Also gives you options in the force fed department.

[zak 0]

can't give you any tips on removing the auto or the conversion for that matter but if you need my car for reference then no problem

[Kevin Bacon 5]

How do you remove the pressure relief valve? There is an off-centre hole in the cap, and according to Bentley is tightened to 40Nm. How does this come off? I would want to disassemble teh pump, clean it all up and refit, if ok. btw, how much is a new one?

 

Dunno mate, I've never taken one to bits. I just knew that you 'could', sorry! To sound like a broken record.....Vince will know :lol:

 

New pumps were £98+VAT last time I got one.

 

TBH mate, I wouldn't risk an old pump that's had bits of bearing pass through it. Better to start over with a new one. I know it's not cheap, but it's good peace of mind.

[fla 9]

can't give you any tips on removing the auto or the conversion for that matter but if you need my car for reference then no problem

 

Just gives me an excuse to feel jealous of your car again Zak 8)

 

Seriously though, i'll proib need to look a the clutch pipes and routing to make sure tis is right. together with that for the reservoir adaption

 

New pumps were £98+VAT last time I got one.

 

 

Quite a lot then. Oh dear. I'm going to dismantle and test this pump as the costs are racking up a little too much and too stealthily. Its such a basic pump, there's not much to go wrong in it (a big advantage with gear pumps), might just replace the pressure relief valve components. Unless someone has a spare kicking around?

[fla 9]

Finally turned the corner with the lower chain installed. Found that the lower tensioner had separated itself from the tensioner mechanism, is this avaiable separately? Apart from that, one of the 100Nm bolts holding the torque converter mounting plate stripped the splines in the head - i think the bolts on the car hate me. Anyway, thanks to Rogers Irwin bolt extractors and about half an hour's swearing it finally came out.

Quite a mission to refit the chain AND keep the timing ok. Intermediate bearing is okay, the shaft spins quite freely. Oil pump will be stripped down and rebuilt this week some time. After that, its putting it all back together. Flywheel will be going on first and then all the manual gearbox stuff (when it arrives) will need to be sussed out.

Cylinder head is ready to go on, the cams have been refitted and the cam caps oil and greased up. Cleaned the head block in preparation for the head gasket. Oil sump cleaned of metal shavings and bits of plastic. I'm still trying to clean and polish up the various bits before reassembly. Will post some new pics later.

[pete_griff 0]

Just wondering if anyone has any pics of the clutch line routing, or any others of the general manual setup?

 

hey buddy, good to see your progressing - it's such a good feeling when you get it all done - when you start it up again for the first time... hmmmm.... :D

 

mate i've just had a quick look through my old pics of when i replaced my head gasket and found a couple of pics that you may find useful...

 

i'm nowhere near my car now, as i've taken it off the road before i leave the country for 6 months in a couple of weeks. however, looking at the pics, it looks like the line from the clutch master cylinder follows the brake lines from the brake master, then goes behind the abs pump and then bends round where it joins onto the flexi-hose that goes down to the clutch slave.

 

i've included an attachment and a link to one of my old pics below - they are not amazingly clear, but should give you some idea...

 

keep up the good work anyway my friend - like i said; it's sooooo worth it in the end :)

 

download/file.php?id=49255&mode=view

[pete_griff 0]

hey again buddy - after much arguing with the works computer, it won't let me upload a file that i saved onto it after editing one of the photos just to highlight more clearly where a bit was.

 

basically if you check out the pic, just under where the vacuum line runs off the inlet manifold to the brake servo you can see where the solid line from the clutch master joins onto and becomes the flexi-line that runs to the clutch slave...

 

hope the pics help buddy...

 

download/file.php?id=49254&mode=view

[fla 9]

Top man Griff, thanks for that. Every little helps, especailly at this stage and what with doing the tranny transplant i'm really in the dark with that.

[pete_griff 0]

hassan buddy - not wishing to criticise or anything like that, but looking at the pics of your engine - the inside is pretty gopping. before you start putting it all back together, now would be a really good time to get it steam cleaned (like i did with my head - and look how that came up) it would not only make putting the engine back together more enjoyable and easier as you won't have to be re-cleaning things every two seconds, but it will also help prolong the life of the engine, as you will remove all those nasty contaminants from the old oil etc that are stuck everywhere at the moment.

 

also (in my humble opinion), the thing which really makes a good rebuild stand out from a bad one is leaks - make sure you give all gasket surfaces a really really good clean to ensure that you have good seals everywhere, and that way the engine will stay nice and shiny once you have put it back in. once again, steam cleaning would help this no end...

 

obviously though, this would mean that you would have to remove the crank/pistons etc, but it would be worth it at the end of the day, as steam cleaning is really cheap and effectively makes the block like new again

 

good luck again anyway matey - hope you get it all sorted soon :)

[fla 9]

None taken Griff, your comments are always helpful. At the moment i'm cleaning everything with WD40 before refitting, however, as you can see the block area behind the chains is not the cleanest, as is the bottom end. My only concern with steam cleaning is, as progress is slow, the existing oil, gives it a bit of protection against interim corrosion. How would i go about steam cleaning the engine? The other thing i would be worried about is wouldnt the steam pressure force and remaining bits into the crevices so i cant see them at all? What would you suggest about cleaning the bottom end? BTW, does the timing look correct, Haywire, RB et al?

Fortunately the pistons and bores are absolutely fine. I've just cleaned off most of the head gasket residue with emery and polished it a bit with a green plastic scourer to get the face nice and clean.

[pete_griff 0]

when you take the bottom end appart, you could get the whole lot steam cleaned (crank, con-rods etc, just make sure that the second it dries out you whack some engine assembly lube over at the very least all the working parts to keep them free from corrosion. also make sure that the second the bearing come out of the block, you get them cleaned up (wd40 will do) and then covered in lube so they don't corrode.

 

i guess that's a fair one about you worrying about corrosion on the block, but once its clean, as long as you keep it somewhere dry, then i wouldn't worry too much about that - you will be putting it back together before long, so as long as you wipe the bores etc with an oil-soaked rag, you shouldn't have any dramas.

 

as for getting the steam cleaning done, if you ask around there are plenty of people who will steam clean things for you - if you have a dedicated engine mechanic worth his salt near you, then he will almost certainly have a steam cleaner, but really anywhere where you can find one.

also with the cleaning blasting stuff out of sight, it's best practice (especially when skimming heads and things that involve swarf etc) to get an airgun and give all coolant channels/orifices you can find a good squirt to make sure that there is nothing untoward left in them.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

BTW, does the timing look correct, Haywire, RB et al?

 

It's spot on my man ;-)

 

I would dab a blob of tippex on the intermediate pulley's marker so that you can see it easily when the gearbox is back on.

[pete_griff 0]

BTW, does the timing look correct, Haywire, RB et al?

 

It's spot on my man ;-)

 

I would dab a blob of tippex on the intermediate pulley's marker so that you can see it easily when the gearbox is back on.

 

tippex is awesome stuff! :D