Still having trouble with VR6 running

[quicky1980 0]

I have fitted a VR6 to my corrado 2.0 16v. And Im having trouble with fueling/running.

Its all over the place and stalls often, also feels like its missing.

 

I placed vag com and got this:

 

VAG-COM Version: Release 704.1

Data version: 20071016

 

Friday,02,November,2007,14:03:51:59717

 

Chassis Type: 50 - VW Corrado

Scan: 01 02 03 15 25

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine Labels: 021-906-258.LBL

Part No: 021 906 258 AG

Component: MOTOR PMC 1

 

3 Faults Found:

01247 - Activated Charcoal Filter (EVAP) System Solenoid Valve 1 (N80)

28-00 - Short to Plus

00553 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)

29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

VAG-COM Version: Release 704.1

Data version: 20071016

 

Friday,02,November,2007,14:03:51:59717

 

Chassis Type: 50 - VW Corrado

Scan: 01 02 03 15 25

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine Labels: 021-906-258.LBL

Part No: 021 906 258 AG

Component: MOTOR PMC 1

 

3 Faults Found:

01247 - Activated Charcoal Filter (EVAP) System Solenoid Valve 1 (N80)

28-00 - Short to Plus

00553 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)

29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)

03-00 - No Signal

Readiness: N/A

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: None

Part No: 1H0 907 379

 

No fault code found.

 

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

03-00 - No Signal

Readiness: N/A

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: None

Part No: 1H0 907 379

 

No fault code found.

 

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

could someone give me an explanation of each fault, the charcoal filter has been removed completely inc the sensor.

im really stuck and starting to loose faith.

[quicky1980 0]

just thought i would say that the fuel pump sounds loud, its buzzing quite badly, is this coincidence? or could this be a reason?

 

also found this link

 

http://www.s2-audi.co.uk/tech_articles/ ... faults.htm

 

it tells me the proble but dont know how to interpret it

 

error

00513

Engine speed sender (G28)

-Implausible signal

-No signal

- Mechanical fault

 

cause

-Metal swarf on G28

-Base of G28 loose

-Clearance from G28 to ring gear

of flywheel > 1.2mm

-Teeth at ring gear of flywheel

broken off

-Open circuit in wiring between

3 pin connector in engine

compartment and G28

-Open circuit in wiring between J220 (whats J220??)

and G28

-Short circuit between contact 47 of

J220 and screening or engine earth

-Open circuit in screening of G28

-3 pin plug connection of G28 & G4

in engine compartment mixed up

-G28 faulty

-Input for G28 at J220 faulty

(J220 faulty)

 

sympton

-Engine does not start

-Misfiring

-Engine cuts out

-Engine does not start

 

result

Test G28

-Rectify short circuit or open circuit

 

 

 

and for the maf

 

error

00553

Air mass meter G70

-Signal too large

-Signal too small

 

cause

-Open circuit in wiring between G70 and J220

-Voltage supply to G70 interrupted or short

to earth

-Short to earth of signal wire to J220

-Short circuit of signal wire to J220

-G70 faulty

-Input for G70 in J220 faulty (J220 faulty)

 

symptons

Slight handling faults (performance)

 

result

Test G70

[dr_mat 0]

00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)

03-00 - No Signal

 

Repeat after me: "You always get this if the engine isn't running when you scan it." Ignore it. VERY common question..

 

00553 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)

29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

 

You have a faulty MAF, or faulty wiring to the MAF.

[quicky1980 0]

im tending to believe that the cam sensor is faulty due to my car having the symptons this error states.

 

ive tried another maf from someone off here who said it was working. so looks like wiring but got no idea where the break is because ive checked for continuity and its there.

 

i do however have no speedometer and no fuel guage on the instrument cluster. is this linked to anything?

 

feel like getting a big hammer and making contact with the engine

[quicky1980 0]

Also what is this J220??

[dr_mat 0]

Also what is this J220??

 

You got that off an Audi S2 page, expect the sensors to be different!

 

Did you:

 

- replace the MAF

- clear the error codes

 

.. THEN run the engine?

[GTi.Si 0]

I had no speedo when I put a VR in my old mk2. Was the earth on the plug gear box end. Had pulled out, re-solderd it and them it worked fine.

[quicky1980 0]

Tried another MAF, was told it was a working unit. also cleared the error codes when i read them. rechecked them and they are still the same.

 

how can i test teh cam sensor? i unplugged the sensor and it made no difference to the engines running.

 

GTI.SI where is this wire? im hoping this could be the reason. although i checked the three speedo wires and they seemed ok, are these the wires your on about?

 

anyone wanna travel my way into hereford and help out?? reward to the person who can sort it :D

[dr_mat 0]

Tried another MAF, was told it was a working unit. also cleared the error codes when i read them. rechecked them and they are still the same.

 

how can i test teh cam sensor? i unplugged the sensor and it made no difference to the engines running.

 

The cam sensor would be detected by the ECU if it was faulty.

 

I think you either have a duff loom to the MAF or a duff ECU. More likely the loom to the MAF is causing the intermittent short somewhere, so it's time to trace those wires through.. Running without the MAF relies on the throttle position sensor and the engine can only do approximate fuelling, it's bound to be a bit rough.

[quicky1980 0]

not sure if i pointed out how bad this engine runs,but it hunts very badly and also tries to die as soon as possible. i'm tending to agree with you that the cam sensor isnt naffed so will have to check the wiring.

Acording to my search unplugging the cam sensor will stop or not allow the engine to run, yet mine ran the same. could it be the wrong cam sensor? ie obd2 or is it wrth me changing anyway.

 

will change the ISV today and see if that helps. does anyone know which wires from the MAF i need to check for the unit? do they all end up in the ecu?

 

if i cant track it down i think its a case of changing the loom and possibly finding another ecu even though i already tried another ecu when i could start the engine at all. turned out that previouse engine owner fitted obd2 engine sensor.

 

when i tried to drive it it still tries to stall all the time, also seems to missfire under load. so will check plugs and lead arrangement for the tenth time and see if ive missed something.

 

argghhh!!

 

thanks

[dr_mat 0]

not sure if i pointed out how bad this engine runs,but it hunts very badly and also tries to die as soon as possible. i'm tending to agree with you that the cam sensor isnt naffed so will have to check the wiring.

Acording to my search unplugging the cam sensor will stop or not allow the engine to run, yet mine ran the same. could it be the wrong cam sensor? ie obd2 or is it wrth me changing anyway.

 

If you unplug the cam sensor, nothing happens, you just lose a few bhp. The crank sensor, on the other hand, prevents the engine running full stop (of course).

 

I still think your loom must be causing the problem. With no working MAF the fuelling will be finger-in-the-air guesswork, and particularly if it keeps dropping out intermittently .. !

 

The late VR6 doesn't notice the MAF sensor being unplugged either, till you try to rev it up.

[quicky1980 0]

Ok, bit of progress, I changed the ISV and that helped a little with the running although when the engine gets warm it gives up. Also runs very rough almost as if missfiring.

 

checked error codes and dont seem to have any! :) strange how the error code pointed it to the MAF and not the ISV. last things left to try i think is to change the HT leads, and new spark plugs to at least rule those out. the coil pack im using is from a 2.8 litre ford galaxy, but that should be ok right?

 

still get loads of grey smoke out of the exhaust but im hoping its because the engine hasnt been ran for months and months.

 

any ideas for the rough running?

[quicky1980 0]

Well its the end of the weekend and i have to drive to Peterborough without my corrado. It still wont run properly even though there arent any error codes :(

 

so am going to get a local vw garage to come pick it up and sort it for me. hopefully they'll track the problem quicker than i can.

 

I did a print screen from vag com. do the values look ok?

 

[dr_mat 0]

I did a print screen from vag com. do the values look ok?

 

"Coolant temperature: 9.8 deg C" doesn't look right to me, unless this was a cold start. Injector timing is quite long, and it's idling at 960, which is quite high though, so it might be correct.

[quicky1980 0]

Because all the values where fluctuating so much I carried out another screen shot, here it is.

 

this was the first screen shot, hence coolant temp being lower

 

All I can think of doing now is:

change ht leads

change spark plugs

clamp up exhaust (between manifold and CAT converter)

change inlet gaskets and check for air leaks

change fuel pump???

 

anything else anyone recommend?

 

could the physical engine be crap? if sho what should i check?

[dr_mat 0]

Because all the values where fluctuating so much I carried out another screen shot, here it is.

 

this was the first screen shot, hence coolant temp being lower

 

 

But was the temp CORRECT? I mean, was the engine stone cold when you took these snapshots? 600rpm idle is very low for a stone cold engine.

 

I do notice that your lambda value is fixed at 1.000 aswell - this also implies that this was a cold start, OR that the lambda is not working at all.

 

You need to run it up to temperature and check the measuring blocks again to get realistic idea of what's going on. All kinds of weird shit can happen during cold start enrichment (12ms injector timing for example!) and it doesn't mean anything.

 

Coolant temp should be reasonable, O2 Active value should fluctuate between 0.7 and 1.3 every second or two, injector timings at idle shouldn't be more than about 4-5 ms. (That's an indication of how rich it runs when cold - 2-3 times the fuel is going in.)

[quicky1980 0]

Im no longer with the car now so cant check anything. but need to try and figure out this problem ready for when i go back.

 

car was a 1992 16v 2.0 Corrado now converted to post 1993 2.9 coil pack VR6.

 

So far I have changed

Coil Pack (new ford galaxy unit)

MAF (second hand)

ISV (second hand)

blue coolant sensor (new vw unit)

not changed the Lambda probe yet as I fitted a new one on last year, although I do have a Bosch unit ready to fit on.

 

 

symptons are;

when it ran at its best, it didnt run well on load ie missfires untill reaches higher revs where it seemed to run quite nicely (and sounded great :)). seems to now want to cut out at any possible chance.

 

unsure if these are linked to my problem but only started since engine swap;

no fuel guage reading (unsure how much is in there but did put 5ltrs in before i tried running the car)

no speedometer reading (new VAG sensor fitted to gearbox side and checked the gear unit which was fine)

rev counter/led lights and temp guage all work fine

 

 

because the car is kept in the middle of nowhere i havent had chance to fix the seal between the exhaust manifold and the cat pipe due to not being ables to get a exhaust gasket over the weekend i worked on the car. so there is a huge exhaust leak in this area before it reaches the Lambda probe.

 

I'm still unsure if i have plugged in all the leads into the fuse box area correctly due to me having a few wires hanging free near the box and not having anywhere to be linked. One in particalar is a green/black wire. does anyone know which ones shouldnt be wired up to anything?

 

 

I need to plan what i can try to do next time i go visit my mom. ill only have a two day window to work on it and that will be on a weekend. So any ideas welcome as I will try as many as possible.

 

any one in worcester/hereford area available to come help me one weekend?!?!?

[dr_mat 0]

no fuel guage reading (unsure how much is in there but did put 5ltrs in before i tried running the car)

 

because the car is kept in the middle of nowhere i havent had chance to fix the seal between the exhaust manifold and the cat pipe due to not being ables to get a exhaust gasket over the weekend i worked on the car. so there is a huge exhaust leak in this area before it reaches the Lambda probe.

 

Right, so you don't know if there's enough fuel to maintain line pressure (that won't help!) and you havea gaping hole in the exhaust manifold pre-lambda probe. No big surprise it runs like a dog!

I think you found your starting points!

[quicky1980 0]

no fuel guage reading (unsure how much is in there but did put 5ltrs in before i tried running the car)

 

because the car is kept in the middle of nowhere i havent had chance to fix the seal between the exhaust manifold and the cat pipe due to not being ables to get a exhaust gasket over the weekend i worked on the car. so there is a huge exhaust leak in this area before it reaches the Lambda probe.

 

Right, so you don't know if there's enough fuel to maintain line pressure (that won't help!) and you havea gaping hole in the exhaust manifold pre-lambda probe. No big surprise it runs like a dog!

I think you found your starting points!

 

I would have thought that the gap pre lambda shouldnt affect running as the lambda probe doesnt work at cold (start up) temp? Also with the fuel situation, I placed £5 in the tank, ran the car for a short time, died so placed another £5 in so it should have enough in the tank. But I could be wrong on both counts.

 

I will sort the above problems out next time i go home, by closing the gap and put more fuel in. If that doesnt work I will take the car to stealth, who are on the way back from hereford to peterborough.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I agree with Mat, the hole in your exhaust isn't helping matters mate. The reason it runs OK at high revs is because the ECU isn't interested in what the Lambda is doing because it runs a fixed map. On part throttle, the extra air blowing over the lambda is going to falsify the readings and the ECU will compensate by overfuelling it, hence the grey smoke.

 

I reckon if you make the exhaust gas tight it will solve 70% of your problems straight away ;-)

[dr_mat 0]

I will sort the above problems out next time i go home, by closing the gap and put more fuel in. If that doesnt work I will take the car to stealth, who are on the way back from hereford to peterborough.

 

Good. We're trying to help, but it's just not worth trying to diagnose a possible other fault when you have one known great big fat-ass fault staring you in the face.

 

Kinda like looking for a needle when you don't have a haystack .. ;)

[quicky1980 0]

Im down at my parents again to try and sort out my car.

 

Fitted a new exhaust gasket to seal the leak between the lambda and the exhaust manifold. Also stuck in another 5 litres of fuel.

 

Car still doesnt run well and still no fuel guage. I even fitted a new bosch lambda probe.

 

I bridged the wires to the fuel pump (tank end) and the fuel guage didnt rise. So what else could I be missing?

 

thanks