Gemini 6 speed with Quaife torsen diff in VR6 casing

[Simon69 0]

Hi all,

 

I currently have the aforementioned Gemini / Quaife combo in the front of my VR6. It was purchased from Stealth several years ago to use in a 16v MK1 and Vince re-built it into a VR6 casing about 6 months ago.

 

Vince would be able to "vouch" for it's provenance

 

The reason for posting is that I am considering selling it but I have absolutely no idea of what it's value would be

 

Can anyone help?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

btw, if this should be in for sale or something I apologise but it's not actually for sale (yet)

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

i will give you two chickens and a cow!

[Simon69 0]

i will give you two chickens and a cow!

 

Not sure I can re-sell those on Flea-Bay...

 

;)

[was8v 0]

Tough one. Gemini 6 speed kits cost around £2k but now discontinued. Add the cost of a quaiffe, labour and a VR6 box and its a very expensive gearbox.

 

Best bet would be to advertise on forums and ebay it.

[VAG-hag 0]

two arms & a leg?

 

free hand with each arm!!

[Simon69 0]

I think I'd struggle getting anything for them on flea bay too....

 

;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You don't get many of these come up for sale often!

 

Is it helical synchromesh or dog straight cut?

 

Any idea of torque handling capacity and the gear and final drive ratios? :-)

[Simon69 0]

Hey Kev,

 

It's got helical gears & syncro's, can't remember the exact ratio's. 1st is high, 6th is about 25mph per 1000rpm, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th are nice and close.

 

It was originally done for a 16vT for track / road use but it transformed the stock VR6 C and I'm really not sure about selling... But i'm thinking of going back to WRX's so there is no point in having a £3k VW transmission cluttering up the place!

 

Torque, hmmmm... As you know the Gemini boxes were originally designed as race and rally boxes so you'd hypothesise something in the region of 350-400ft/lbs but its helical not straight cut so that means less, then on the other hand it's FWD so too much torque (without slicks) will just spin up the wheels (protecting the box).

 

Personally I'd say it's perfect for a FWD chassis, I'm toying with putting together a MK1 16v screamer on TB's and using it in that.... Or selling it lol...

 

And yea, there are "similar" ones about but as you know, it's not the look it's the quality of the metallurgy that counts ;) I could be wrong but I think the Gemini stuff is pretty damn good.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cool stuff.

 

WRXs.... are you the same Simon that used to post in the Forced induction VR6 thread? I wondered where you'd gone! You know your stuff!!

 

Did you get my PM?

 

I've not personally heard of a gemini gearset breaking, but as with any gearbox, owner treatment tends to govern lifespan!

It's not unheard of to break a stock gearbox with stock power / torque!

 

I like the ratios I've got now with the G60 final drive, I just need a 6th! Vince will know the ratios, I'll have a word with him!

 

Cheers

[Simon69 0]

Yea same guy, I used to work for Prodrive, I did some of the performance packs they sell through Subaru UK (for my sins lol...) among other things, hence the bit of turbo experience.

 

You should have my return PM, have a chat with Vince, I would say if your just using it on the road (i.e. no slicks at santa pod) then you should be ok. I too have never heard of a Gemini breakage but the septic's seem to have broken a few Quaife boxes and they can't be that much difference, however, (most) of em can't shift / launch to save their lives so it's not surprising... (Que flames from the septic's teehee...)

 

Stock VR ratio's are not bad once you shorten the final drive, makes 1st and 2nd a bit low though, FW torque can get a bit crazy especially with forced induction, you already have a Quiafe though?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sounds like an interesting job you had at ProDrive. I'd love to develop stuff like that instead of boring IT, c'est la vie!

 

I've also heard of Quaife gearsets breaking, which is quite surprising when you see the gears in the flesh. I guess they're not as strong as they look! Bit like Geoff capes. He could only tear one phone book in half, but my Dad can rip 3 at once :lol:

 

Yeah I've got a Quaife diff already!

[H8RRA 0]

i believe this is the same as my box and i can highly recommend it. I've used it a lot and love it.

 

first is std and gives you a chance to get off the line without revving to high too quickly and 2-6 is superbly spaced so that each change drops you 500rpm or so - theres a vid on my car thread showing the gear changes up to 100 or so.

 

I thought i got a bargain at £1200 and would hope for £1500 if i sold it

 

the helical whine is just loud enough to be nice and to know theres something special going on without being instrusive - its one of my favourite things about the box. i did originally worry it would be too loud before i fited the box but its fine.

 

one of the best thing i've bought - as most of you will know, i'm running best part of 330+ lbft without any issues whatsoever

[_leon_ 0]

I always wanted a 5/6 speed close ratio box with atb diff for my old G60. Same would apply for the current VR!

Interested to see the ratios. What would be the recovery of a broken Gemini set - or since theyre discontinued - is there any support/possibility of purchasing a replacement?

 

*watching carefully for a price coming up...* So when you making up a price? ;)

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

i would love this box,been in Pauls (H8RRA) and its quick between the gears,i know the price tag is high..... :(

[StormchargedVR6 0]

This is very interesting, fancy a six speed :D but its the wrong time for me :(

[Simon69 0]

I always wanted a 5/6 speed close ratio box with atb diff for my old G60. Same would apply for the current VR!

Interested to see the ratios. What would be the recovery of a broken Gemini set - or since theyre discontinued - is there any support/possibility of purchasing a replacement?

 

*watching carefully for a price coming up...* So when you making up a price? ;)

 

Kev spoke to Vince, you can get all the bits apart from the gears, so if you stripped teeth or broke a gear your into getting new ones machined. There is a couple of places in Coventry that do this also I know a good place in Italy too, there would be a cost but cheaper than a new box and saves scrapping the whole box for the sake of a gear.

 

Was trying to remember the ratio's last night, 1st is about stock, 6th is about 25mph per 1000rpm and the rest are nice and close in between lol... It basically gets rid of that horrible gap between 2nd and 3rd plus it closes up all the rest a bit too, it's kind of nice.

 

Can't really say enough about the diff, anyone who does not have one cannot possibly realise how much of a difference they make and that's just with stock VR power, once you start tuning it they become essential in my opinion, I have no idea how some of these people with 1.8T's and forced induction VR's manage, their cars must have crap dynamics...

 

Maybe just put the whole car up for sale, £3k the lot then they can either have a very expensive VR with a free gearbox OR a very expensive gearbox and a free car LOL...

 

Hey ho, cheers for now

 

Simon

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Can't really say enough about the diff, anyone who does not have one cannot possibly realise how much of a difference they make and that's just with stock VR power, once you start tuning it they become essential in my opinion, I have no idea how some of these people with 1.8T's and forced induction VR's manage, their cars must have crap dynamics...

 

100% agree with that. The gearbox is often overlooked as a way of enhancing performance and handling.

 

Maybe just put the whole car up for sale, £3k the lot then they can either have a very expensive VR with a free gearbox OR a very expensive gearbox and a free car LOL...

 

So the Gemini is in a Corrado VR6 currently? If the car is pretty tidy, it would be a bargain with that gearbox!

[_leon_ 0]

so who needs a spare vr6 after i've removed the gemini for mine then? ;) ...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Could do with a straight shell, so I'll have it :lol:

[Simon69 0]

So the Gemini is in a Corrado VR6 currently? If the car is pretty tidy, it would be a bargain with that gearbox!

 

Yea it currently resides in my 94 Corrado VR6. Cars pretty good, steadily replacing rubbers, dampers, brake lines etc etc but the shell is straight and rust free, interior is just about perfect... Hmmm need to stop now or I'll want to keep it again!! :grin:

[_leon_ 0]

Keep me in check with a price - interested to know what you arrive at...

[Simon69 0]

Keep me in check with a price - interested to know what you arrive at...

 

At the mo I'm thinking £3500 for the complete car (inc tranny), I'll think about it over the weekend and if that's what I decide I'll put it in the for sale section (and flea bay)...

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[corozin 0]

If I was trying to sell that box/diff I'd hope to get at least £1500 for it, but your problem will probably be getting someone interested in buying what is a fairly exotic item for what is now a pretty old car.

 

If you can find a potential buyer, you should get good money. I would consider putting it up on VW Vortex, although obviously that involves shipping hassle & costs.

 

If it's in a car it doesn't in my view add substantially to the car's value. Certainly not £1500+ worth anyway.

 

HTH,

John

[_leon_ 0]

I've seen this same thread posted on around another 3 forums - and seen more info on it.

 

Just to echo what John wrote. I am interested myself to see what price you're wanting for it - but I'd see the the car as unwanted baggage. If I were you - I'd either sell the box straight - or offer an option to swap with a std box to allow your car to sell. Either way please keep us posted... (speaking selfishly of course)

[Simon69 0]

I've seen this same thread posted on around another 3 forums - and seen more info on it.

 

Just to echo what John wrote. I am interested myself to see what price you're wanting for it - but I'd see the the car as unwanted baggage. If I were you - I'd either sell the box straight - or offer an option to swap with a std box to allow your car to sell. Either way please keep us posted... (speaking selfishly of course)

 

Laughing... Yea,

 

ED38 (waste of time unless you want to stretch your rubber & slam ur ride, dude...)

Club GTi (seems slightly "overrun" by a certain "personality"..)

And here on the C forum (which is actually ok!)

 

I've decided not to sell it as don't see the point if people only think it's worth £1500, I may as well keep it, either leave it in the C (and give the C to the misses) or build a MK1 "toy" and stick it in that.

 

Hope I haven't pi55ed anyone off as that was not the intention.

 

Cheers

 

Simon