Belgian GP - possible spoiler

[Dec 1]

Well the rules state that you shouldn't get an undue advantage from cutting the corner. By doing the bare minimum to let Kimi past he is still gaining an advantage over if he had taken the corner on the track, as I said in my last post.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Well the rules state that you shouldn't get an undue advantage from cutting the corner. By doing the bare minimum to let Kimi past he is still gaining an advantage over if he had taken the corner on the track, as I said in my last post.

 

Being slower by 6kmh and being behind him into the braking zone of the first corner isnt an advantage. If he was right next to him before or into the braking zone then maybe.

 

I suppose the only good that will come out of this is that it'll keep the racing going for longer, as opposed to one driver being sure to win before the last 5 races. I wonder if we'll have a year in F1 without any controversey. :lol:

[Critical_Mass 10]

Lets face it this one will be argued about years from now.

[Dec 1]

I wonder if we'll have a year in F1 without any controversey. :lol:

 

Doubtfull! But we wouldn't have healthy debate threads like this without it! :lol:

 

Irrespective of the fact that he was physically (just) behind Kimi approaching La Source, I still think he gained an advantage by skipping the corner over his potential track position if he had stayed on track around the Bus-Stop chicane.

 

If there had been a wall preventing him cutting the corner and he was forced to brake on the final corner of Bus-Stop, I think he would have been the guts of a second behind Kimi approaching La source, not all over his gearbox.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Yeah ive just been thinking that - if they had kept the old bus-stop chicane there would have been no chance of "cutting corners".

 

But even if Hamilton had been 2-3 seconds behind he clearly had the speed and grip in those conditions pass him on the next lap anyway, going by how badly the Ferrari's were handling in the rain compared to the Mclarens.

 

But does all the above matter seen as kimi spun himself out into a wall?

[corozin 0]

Well according to the updated reports on PlanetF1 the stewards have clarified that the penalty imposed was nothing to do with Hamilton's corner cutting, but was imposed because Hamilton gained momentum down the following straight to La Source.

 

Which considering the data shows Kimi was going 6kph faster across the start/finish line makes you wonder what planet they are on.

[CTWG60 0]

What a bunch of ar$e.

 

Don't worry Hamilton's championship victory will be all the sweeter.

 

Ever heard the saying "You can't keep a good man down!!"

[Talc 0]

On Board footage from Hamiltons Car of the incident...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport

 

They should show a lot more footage of the races from the car, it's awesome...

[Critical_Mass 10]

On Board footage from Hamiltons Car of the incident...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport

 

They should show a lot more footage of the races from the car, it's awesome...

 

 

Excellent onboard footage. I agree, they should show more of the onboard stuff, i dont think if happens too often.

[Veearrhsix 0]

On Board footage from Hamiltons Car of the incident...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport

 

They should show a lot more footage of the races from the car, it's awesome...

 

 

Excellent onboard footage. I agree, they should show more of the onboard stuff, i dont think if happens too often.

- Actually looks like Kimi just decided to drive on the grass there - ditching his race in the attempt of overtaking the back markers... :shrug: The gutsy fool. :brickwall:

[corozin 0]

Excellent onboard footage. I agree, they should show more of the onboard stuff, i dont think if happens too often.

- Actually looks like Kimi just decided to drive on the grass there - ditching his race in the attempt of overtaking the back markers... :shrug: The gutsy fool. :brickwall:

 

Of course another way one could interpret it was that Raikonnen, resigned to the fact that Hamilton was clearly going to pass him, made a decision to give Hamilton nowhere to go at the chicane, safe in the knowledge that if the two cars collided, that Massa would automatically inherit the 10 points.

 

And that viewpoint shouldn't be discarded as a mere conspiracy theory. Nobody should be under any illusions that no tactic is out of bounds when it comes to Ferrari's quest to retain the title at absolutely any cost. There really is nothing they won't do, as thier historical readiness to use team orders, protests & lawyers illustrates.

 

Raikonnen's championship hopes were already realistically toast before Spa, he's made noises about retiring and Ferrari are trying to replace him with Alonso for 2009 - what would he have to lose by helping his team mate except a bit of dignity and possibly a fine from the FIA? Remember also that Michael Schumacher was also a master of the "nerfing off to protect a lead" technique (back in the day) and now he sits on the Ferrari pitwall helping with strategy...

[Dec 1]

:lol: :lol:

 

Now that's getting a bit ridiculous tbh, there's absolutely no evidence of that!

 

Raikonnen was obvioulsy just racing for himself on the day, as he had a point to prove to keep his title chance alive, and to prevent himself from being relegated to no.2 at Ferrari. He made no effort to attempt to slow Hamilton to allow Masa to catch up, as the norm would have been for a no.2 driver who is in the lead to do.

 

His 'block' on the Bus-stop chicane was perfectly legitamate and he stayed on the racing line........Why would a driver not make a legal block on a corner when someone was trying to overtake?!?!? Was he supposed to just pull to one side and allow him through?!?!?

 

Raikonnen would have had more to lose than most by knocking Hamilton off. Hamilton made slight contact with Kimi on the bus-stop chicane; Kimi made slight contact with the rear of Hamilton at La source. There was no damage in either case, and if either driver had wanted to knock the other off at either point, they could have. It's just part of close racing at that speed.

[vwdeviant 0]

Taken From Plaent f1:

Gazetta Delo Sport today: La Gazzetta dello Sport quotes defending World Champion Kimi Raikkonen as being prepared to testify on behalf of arch rival Lewis Hamilton at the FIA hearing that will result from Vodafone McLaren Mercedes' protest of the penalty imposed on Hamilton after the Belgian Grand Prix. "I don't care what the stewards said, as far as I was concerned, Hamilton let me by as we passed the pits", said Raikkonen in Geneva today. "I got ahead, I tried to defend the position and the race was on again. My car was for sure very difficult on the prime tyres in the rain and Lewis got by me into the hairpin. That was that." Raikkonen went on, "For sure, I don't like to lose but I don't like to win through stupid decisions. People say I have lost the love (for F1) but yesterday I showed that second was not what I wanted. There are five races to go and I plan to win them all. I'm not the sort to give up that easily." Asked if he was prepared to testify to that effect if the McLaren protest goes to the FIA, Raikkonen simply said, "Yes, why not." Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali declined to comment on Raikkonen's statement but technical director Aldo Costa admitted the Scuderia was not pleased. "Our driver has a view but the team believes the stewards and the FIA have all the information they need. We will be talking to our driver during the week," OOpps!!"

 

Any-one like to lay money on Kimmi being in red overalls next year? ;)

[Critical_Mass 10]

Yeah I think that was a genuine and legitimate block by Raikkonnen, which imo gave Hamilton no choice but to shortcut the corner.

 

I think was corizon said is possible and shouldnt be ruled out completely and although there's no evidence of it, you can only go on past experience with Ferrari. I wouldnt put it past them to do ANYTHING necessary for them to keep the championship.

 

If Massa it kept on for another season and Alonso is brought in I wonder where Raikkonnen will go? BMW?

[CTWG60 0]

Taken From Plaent f1:

Gazetta Delo Sport today: La Gazzetta dello Sport quotes defending World Champion Kimi Raikkonen as being prepared to testify on behalf of arch rival Lewis Hamilton at the FIA hearing that will result from Vodafone McLaren Mercedes' protest of the penalty imposed on Hamilton after the Belgian Grand Prix. "I don't care what the stewards said, as far as I was concerned, Hamilton let me by as we passed the pits", said Raikkonen in Geneva today. "I got ahead, I tried to defend the position and the race was on again. My car was for sure very difficult on the prime tyres in the rain and Lewis got by me into the hairpin. That was that." Raikkonen went on, "For sure, I don't like to lose but I don't like to win through stupid decisions. People say I have lost the love (for F1) but yesterday I showed that second was not what I wanted. There are five races to go and I plan to win them all. I'm not the sort to give up that easily." Asked if he was prepared to testify to that effect if the McLaren protest goes to the FIA, Raikkonen simply said, "Yes, why not." Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali declined to comment on Raikkonen's statement but technical director Aldo Costa admitted the Scuderia was not pleased. "Our driver has a view but the team believes the stewards and the FIA have all the information they need. We will be talking to our driver during the week," OOpps!!"

 

Any-one like to lay money on Kimmi being in red overalls next year? ;)

 

This is great almost as entertaining as the last laps at Spa! :D What goes around comes around hey! :grin:

[horney 0]

Taken From Plaent f1:

Gazetta Delo Sport today: La Gazzetta dello Sport quotes defending World Champion Kimi Raikkonen as being prepared to testify on behalf of arch rival Lewis Hamilton at the FIA hearing that will result from Vodafone McLaren Mercedes' protest of the penalty imposed on Hamilton after the Belgian Grand Prix. "I don't care what the stewards said, as far as I was concerned, Hamilton let me by as we passed the pits", said Raikkonen in Geneva today. "I got ahead, I tried to defend the position and the race was on again. My car was for sure very difficult on the prime tyres in the rain and Lewis got by me into the hairpin. That was that." Raikkonen went on, "For sure, I don't like to lose but I don't like to win through stupid decisions. People say I have lost the love (for F1) but yesterday I showed that second was not what I wanted. There are five races to go and I plan to win them all. I'm not the sort to give up that easily." Asked if he was prepared to testify to that effect if the McLaren protest goes to the FIA, Raikkonen simply said, "Yes, why not." Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali declined to comment on Raikkonen's statement but technical director Aldo Costa admitted the Scuderia was not pleased. "Our driver has a view but the team believes the stewards and the FIA have all the information they need. We will be talking to our driver during the week," OOpps!!"

 

Any-one like to lay money on Kimmi being in red overalls next year? ;)

 

This is great almost as entertaining as the last laps at Spa! :D What goes around comes around hey! :grin:

 

Humm that's all very interesting stuff. I've always thought Raki was decent chap, especially when I heard he missed a practice day last season to go mess about on snowmobiles.

 

Nick

[Critical_Mass 10]

I recall hearing something about Raikkonnen saying that Hamilton didnt do anything wrong blah blah blah....

[Critical_Mass 10]

Martin Whitmarsh's full statement off of the official F1 website -

 

'McLaren

[horney 0]

"and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'. "

 

This bit is key. If as they claim they were notified twice by Race officials the whole set of maneuvers were OK and they acted on that I can't see how the FIA can uphold the stewards decision. If the stewards felt that confident of an infringement they should have notified race control at that time.

 

I still think it'll be kept in place though as I don't think the FIA will want to appear weak from backing down.

 

Nick

[corozin 0]

:lol: :lol:

Now that's getting a bit ridiculous tbh, there's absolutely no evidence of that!

 

Don't be so quick to discount that way of thinking. I've been following motorsport for over 25 years now and history is littered with the use of such tactics. For example:

 

BTCC (1994) Steve Soper blocked John Clelland and both cars went off, leaving Soper's champion from Clelland - the only guy who could beat him.

BTCC (1996) Rickard Rydell punted John Clelland off circuit at Brands from behind, leaving Rydell the championship winner

F1GP (1989) Alain Prost turned into the path of the overtaking Ayrton Senna at Suzuka, putting both cars out on the spot and leaving Prost World Champion.

F1GP (1990) Ayrton Senna returned the favour on Prost from the previous season at exactly the same Suzuka Chicane, punting Prost off the track at 180mph and leaving Senna World Champion

F1GP (1994) Michael Schumacher, who needed to finish ahead of the overtaking Damon Hill to take the F1 crown in Adelaide, lost control and "accidentally" cut across the overtaking Hill, putting Schumacher out on the spot but also wrecking Hill's front suspension and forcing him to retire. Unfortunately Hill's retirement had the side effect of crowning Schumacher world champion on the spot.

F1GP (1997) Schumacher again, last race of the season again, leading again, driving into Jacques Villeneuve this time. Unfortunately on this occasion the German came off worse and Villeneuve won enough points to pass the retired Ferrari driver.

 

So far from being a figment of the imagination, taking out your championship opponents to gain or retain an advantage either for yourself or the team is not a figment of the imagination. In fact in the sport it's known as a bit of a no-brainer. Now I'm not saying that Raikonnen deliberately set out to crunch Hamilton on this occasion, but at the same time he would have been very well aware of the impact on the driver's positions were Hamilton to DNF and Massa score points.

[12 DEG BEN 0]

Why on earth should massa be granted the win when hamilton did nothing effectively to gain time on him. It should be a matter of the two cars involved and a place altering procedure when the race finishes assuming the cars in question finish!

 

And I agree with corozins views on motor racing. The touring cars a knock hill this year saw a super roughing up of Jason Plato but the support vauxhalls. Needs must it seems.

[vwdeviant 0]

John's right, but Super-touring always was a bit of a "Battleground" esp in the £Multi-millon days... Ford apparently spent almost £20m in one season! But this was the haydays of Vauxhall/Ford/BMW/Alfa/Nissan/Renault factory teams...

 

I can't see a reversal of this decision, I can see a change for next year though, and Sir Jackie's right, full time professional stewards.

[Critical_Mass 10]

I can't see a reversal of this decision, I can see a change for next year though, and Sir Jackie's right, full time professional stewards.

 

That's the way forward. Same stewards at every race.