Killed my car going through water.. help! ** FIXED **

[Philmo 0]

It's a bugger innit!

Have you tried disconnecting MAF from cold?

99% of any running probs I've had associate with the MAF.

Found recently the best stuff for cleaning the flow sensor is circuit board solvent cleaner.

[Jim 2]

The 9A doesn't have a MAF mate.. so there's nothing to disconnect! :(

[Chris 0]

did the same sort of thing to my 16v about 2 years ago, went through a deepish puddle, cut straight out, started it again 10mins later, drove 2mins down the road then it started to cough n splutter eventually cutting out again. took 45mins of stopping and starting like this, then suddenly the problem rectified itself, as if nothing had ever happened.

i think the problem i encountered was that water had jumped up into the plug holes and around the distributor but looking through your thread i think youve probably ticked this box off already :(

 

 

hope you get to the bottom of this soon matey, if i think of anything ill let you know

[Philmo 0]

The 9A doesn't have a MAF mate.. so there's nothing to disconnect! :(

 

Ah! :ignore:

How does it guesstimate the fuel then? Surely not just from the lambda?

[Jim 2]

Well it's still largely mechanical fuel injection mate!

 

Cheers r4-ge - was thrilled when it started absolutely fine this afternoon but crushed when the lumpy running came back after a minute or so of idling. It's going to be a trip to Stealth Racing I think - thankfully they're very local. Problem is just getting the car there! Maybe I should just upgrade to AA Home Start then get them to come and take it away! :|

[Chris 0]

Well it's still largely mechanical fuel injection mate!

 

Cheers r4-ge - was thrilled when it started absolutely fine this afternoon but crushed when the lumpy running came back after a minute or so of idling. It's going to be a trip to Stealth Racing I think - thankfully they're very local. Problem is just getting the car there! Maybe I should just upgrade to AA Home Start then get them to come and take it away! :|

 

if money isnt an issue this is probably the best course of action you can take, let the expert scratch his head :) (if he needs to that is)

[Jim 2]

Fortunately I've just been paid but similarly don't want to have to let Vince spend a day at it and subsequently have to foot the bill for a full days labour.. I'm hoping he'd have some obvious places to check!

[Philmo 0]

Well it's still largely mechanical fuel injection mate!quote]

 

Can't be doin wi old school fuelling! :cuckoo:

Best o' luck though

:lol:

[Chris 0]

Well it's still largely mechanical fuel injection mate!quote]

 

Can't be doin wi old school fuelling! :cuckoo:

Best o' luck though

:lol:

 

 

 

lol one of the reasons i chucked the vr in mine.

 

 

 

Fortunately I've just been paid but similarly don't want to have to let Vince spend a day at it and subsequently have to foot the bill for a full days labour.. I'm hoping he'd have some obvious places to check!

 

not trying to jump the gun here and i hope its a small inexpensive glitch which vince will find immediately, but, if its gonna work out to be too expensive jim, do you reckon youll be throwing another engine in there? lol doubt youve even thought this far ahead

[Jim 2]

To be honest if it came to that I'd just buy a VR. I've not got the skills or the money to be building up a VR from my car.. given how little they cost these days I'd just buy a VR outright and part out the 2.0 16v.

 

Club GTI are saying to just WD40 and clean every single electrical plug I can find. Looks like that'll be my job on Saturday then?! :)

[Chris 0]

To be honest if it came to that I'd just buy a VR. I've not got the skills or the money to be building up a VR from my car.. given how little they cost these days I'd just buy a VR outright and part out the 2.0 16v.

 

Club GTI are saying to just WD40 and clean every single electrical plug I can find. Looks like that'll be my job on Saturday then?! :)

 

fair enough :) they are on the cheap atm

 

i would have thought youll be looking at an electrical fault rather than a fueling issue. last ditch effort, dry everything out as best you can, especially around the distributor and plug holes, then maybe leave the car to run for along time if you can keep it going, will aid the drying. hope this solves it, or better still, you go to start it during the week and its sorted itself already.

 

when it started running lumpy did you try fiddling around with the timing on the distributor at all? may sound silly but sometime these engines can be very silly

[Jim 2]

To be honest I wouldn't know how to fiddle with the timing but Tempest has offered to come over on Saturday and show me how to check the timing... think I'll be doing that!

[Chris 0]

To be honest I wouldn't know how to fiddle with the timing but Tempest has offered to come over on Saturday and show me how to check the timing... think I'll be doing that!

 

 

its very simple, i have an old photo here, heres one i made earlier... :D im even kind of pointing at one of the bolts (theres one on the other side too) 10mm if i remember correctly.

i know tempest is helping you but just for your reference you loosen these 2 bolts off very slightly whilst the engine is running so you can rotate the whole distributor to find you desired timing spot then tighten them up when shes running lovely again :) i hope it does!

[Reggit 0]

Have you checked that there are no tracking marks on the inside of the dissy 'lid', small dark lines running through the plastic? It's just vaguely possible that a little water vapour is thrown up and causes the spark to arc to the wrong place. Also check the little carbon brush in the centre of the dissy cap.

[coullstar 0]

Most bases seem to be covered but I remember with my old 2l it did something similar in the rain. The car just slowed then died. I restarted but it only last a few minutes. Stopped in a layby and whilst waiting for the RAC I disconnected the battery to reset the ECU. Fired first time and never had the problem again.

 

Im pretty sure its not this but its worth trying.

[Jim 2]

Yeah - definately. Will try this when clearing all my electrical contacts, etc!

[KipVR 1]

Jim, it started when you went through the puddle right?

 

My little process of elimination (is that spelt right?)

Sounds unlikely that the timing would have been upset by this.

There is no water in the air side of things or in the bores.

Electrical side is ok as far as we know- it doesn't generally get worse after 45secs

Fuel pump is working fine when you first start it up, so it's unlikely it would just start to go wrong after 45 or so seconds.

It is most probably therefore something related to the engine warming up- it's the only thing that changes

I believe the ECU has a cold start program, and then switches over to the Lambda after a short while. I personally reckon this is where you should start looking, as it could well have been broken by the sudden temp change being sudenly drenched in water or the plug perhaps.

 

Either way, hope you get it sorted buddy

[davidwort 0]

It is most probably therefore something related to the engine warming up- it's the only thing that changes

I believe the ECU has a cold start program, and then switches over to the Lambda after a short while. ..

 

good point, and the differential pressure regulator (electronic version of the KR's warm up regulator) is on the rhs of the airbox with it's elec connector above the gap between the alternator/engine and the inner wing - water sprays up and ...?

[Jim 2]

Well we did completely pull the lambda plug hoping it would make a difference but no dice. This differential pressure regulator sounds interesting though... :)

 

Just want to say thanks for all of the suggestions though - this has been really useful. Just typical I was away this weekend, and that it's the winter with dark nights! Will try and get a light in the garage and have a go at some of this in the week though..

[corradophil 3]

If you unplugged the lambda sensor and it made no difference to the running of the engine, surely that suggests the lambda is doing nothing.

 

The Lambda is one of the the lowest positioned electrical items and therefore likely to be one of the first to come into contact with the water.

 

You say it smells of petrol - Overfueling due to fauly lambda sensor maybe?

[corradophil 3]

Just another thought on the lambda. Rather than water causing electrical shorts, I wonder if the the sudden temperature change has damaged it?

 

It would be very hot, being screwed into the cat, and submerging it in water which in this weather is going to be around 0 deg C will cause it to cool very quickly. It would only take a small crack on one of the connections to it to cause it to go open circuit and act as if it's not there at all.

 

Just to add to that, I would not alter the ignition timing. How can water rotate the distributor? Answer - It can't.

[davidwort 0]

from what I remember you need to unplug the temp sensor connector on the metering head, the pressure regulator one and possibly the lambda too to get the ECU to ignore all sender inputs and run in get-you-home mode (average values fopr everything).

 

I've said this before on another thread, a few years back there was a 9A at stealth on a RR day, it was not idling and running rough, he was suspect of a pattern lambda and it took unplugging both connectors on the metering head to get it to run OK - Vinces tip.

 

I know the 9A ECU is pretty basic for trouble shooting but I'd imagine if the fault is still present then VAG COM or similar should pick it up.

[Jim 2]

Well - spent a merry hour or so pulling what plugs I could find including the one for the fuel pump at the rear. Everything seemed pretty dry but cleaned them as best as I could.

 

Alas no progress. First time I started it, it ran fine for approx 45 seconds revving perfectly freely and returning to idle. But eventually the lumpiness started to creep in - idle started to miss slightly and revving there was no power and the car started to get too rough to run. Trying to rev the engine occasionally resulted in backfires into the engine.

 

Interestingly it seemed to have moments of clarity where it'd sort of pick up and run OK again but then drop back to the lumpiness a few seconds later.

 

I've got Tempest coming over on Saturday to help me check my timing marks are lining up and to check the timing belt hasn't jumped a tooth or anything but then I'd expect it not to run at ALL in that situation rather than starting and running for a minute or so before going rough..?

 

Going to phone and speak to Vince @ Stealth tomorrow and try and arrange to get the car towed to him on Monday when I'm off work as I just don't have the time or knowledge to be looking at this problem myself.. I need my car to get me to work! :(

[davidwort 0]

Jim, just spoke to my dad and described what you've done, he firstly said fuel pump, damp causing it to short - what we've thought already and then secondly he reckoned (less likely) that water has got into the tank through the tank breather system.

get the seat in the back up, remove the tank lid thing in the floor, remove the tank cap (not sure if the float is attached to that) and peer in with a torch to see if there's any globs of water rolling about in the bottom of the tank, pickup is from the bottom, water sinks in fuel, so it would get sucked right into the system.

[Jim 2]

Ok mate - will wait till the weekend to try that I think with Eric's help.

 

I hope if anything it's the fuel pump that's boned rather than water having got into the fuel system - I'm assuming the car's pretty fubar if that's the case?