help needed!! 16v ABF

[rusty bolts 0]

hi guys right im having a lil bit of a problem at the moment i apologise in advance if i say anything stupid lol this is my 1st engine rebuild! ok so the engine has been fully rebuilt head and all! iv come to putting it back to gether all lovely! :clap: now all the cams are in and done up the right torque settings i cant move the head it wont turn over by hand or by the hex bolt on the end of the cam! ive taken it apart again poured oil every where to make sure its all lubed up but it still wont turn! what am i doing wrong it just wont budge and now to add to my plight one of the studs for the cam bearings have snapped! so how easy is it to replace these? there is a good 15mm left sticking out but only 3mm of that is threaded!

please help im starting to loose faith in this project lol

[davidwort 0]

????

are the valves hitting the pistons? is it timed up with the cam belt on?

 

you'll want to very carefully get a stud extractor in that broken stud if it wont unscrew easily with grips on it, did you torque them up correctly?

[swiftkid 1]

take the cam cover off, loosen all the bolts a bit to see if its makes it easier to turn the cams

 

check the timing, have you timed the cams and the cam belt (the cams have 2 dots on the gears, they should be able to meet horizontally in the middle, if they don't the cams are in wrong position)

 

take the spark plugs out to see if that makes it any easier

[rusty bolts 0]

cam belt isnt on yet, and the pistons are well clear of the valves il try loosening the cap nuts now to see if it makes any difference! and il check the two marks on the cam sprokets.

[dirtytorque 0]

cam belt isnt on yet, and the pistons are well clear of the valves il try loosening the cap nuts now to see if it makes any difference! and il check the two marks on the cam sprokets.

 

????

 

If the cams are in the the valves will hit the pistons and stop it rotating.

You need to time it up properly with the cam belt on and then turn the engine around.

[rusty bolts 0]

but surely if i have the pistons in a clearence position the head should still turn over? it seams like the springs are so solid!are exhuast springs identicle to inlet springs? i was just thinking weather i could have muddled them up!

[swiftkid 1]

the cams will move a bit forward and backwards, im not sure how much clearance the valves have when pistons are all at same height. sounds to me like the cam is too tight in place. try loosening the bolts a little and try again

[rusty bolts 0]

the cams will move a bit forward and backwards, im not sure how much clearance the valves have when pistons are all at same height. sounds to me like the cam is too tight in place. try loosening the bolts a little and try again

i just loosened the nuts still wont turn over! i then took the chain off and tried just the inlet cam still no movement! nothing at all!

[dirtytorque 0]

ok,from reading your original post most people would assume that you haver your engine was all timed up sat at tdc etc b4 rotating the engine.

You said that

If your pistons are all sat halfway down the bores it could be that one or more of your tappets are not sat properly in their bores and are locked in place.

Best to take the cams off and make sure they are all sat in there properly.

[rusty bolts 0]

sorry yer bad 1st post was in rush! ive taken the cams out again the only thing i can notice is that some of the hydraulic cam followers are more "spongey" than others in fact 7 of them feel spongey and 9 feel hard! is this just because the oil hasnt had time to get in them and they should all be 'hard' ? they are all new cam followers!

the head is just going back together how it was the only really difference is new exhaust valve guides! and new oil seals, cam followers and thats it! oh man this is getting fustrating!

[swiftkid 1]

the cam followers are hydraulic so yes they will need to fill up with oil before they set right. but that won't stop the cams from moving, that would just mean the valves would be in a different position. have you tried putting the cams in a bit slacker and trying to move them? i had this problem on one of my engines and i just slackened off the cam covers fractionally.

 

have you also made sure all the cam holders are in the right order and right way round?

[rusty bolts 0]

the cam followers are hydraulic so yes they will need to fill up with oil before they set right. but that won't stop the cams from moving, that would just mean the valves would be in a different position. have you tried putting the cams in a bit slacker and trying to move them? i had this problem on one of my engines and i just slackened off the cam covers fractionally.

 

have you also made sure all the cam holders are in the right order and right way round?

swift kid i love you!!!!!!!!!

i could have sworn i marked everything out correctly and had them the right way round! i took loads of pics as i was doing the rebuild and the initial strip down so i looked back at those and low and behold i put cam holders 1,2,3 and 4 in the right place but the wrong way round! put them the right way round and hey presto she turns :) not easily but she turns :clap: :clap: :clap: im so happy you dont understand lol thankyou guys so much for all your help an input! i guess it will be a bit stiff untill shes actually run properly with the oil up to temp and getting right into the bearings!

[swiftkid 1]

:D glad to be of service. Yes it should be a little bit stiff to turn, just make sure you get the cam belt tension right when your doing it and make sure the tensionner is tightened well once that is done as well!

[davidwort 0]

:nono:

the cam bearing caps are line bored when the head is made, you don't want to get them muddled up

still all good experience I guess, I managed to miss time a valver once when I had no idea how engine timing worked and bent 4 valves when I started it :epicfail:

still I can laugh about it now, but at the time major :bad-words: :mad2:

[Roger Blassberg 0]

If you have torqued down the camshaft bearing caps 180 degrees out, then you may have damaged the top halves of the white metal bearings by pulling them down eccentrically onto the journals and then attempting to turn the camshafts. I would advise you to inspect the bearings. Our friend Hassan (Fla) will tell you all about what happens when camshaft bearings fail.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[swiftkid 1]

and if you have give me a shout because i have a full set you can have for price of postage :D

[rusty bolts 0]

and if you have give me a shout because i have a full set you can have for price of postage :D

i think they are ok because i never torqued them down fully! and it was only on the inlet cam not the exhaust so fingers crossed lol how can i tell if i have damaged them?

[swiftkid 1]

i'm afraid i can't help there, i just undid mine spun them round and tightened them back up and then stood back and smiled at my progress

[rusty bolts 0]

i'm afraid i can't help there, i just undid mine spun them round and tightened them back up and then stood back and smiled at my progress

hopefully all will be ok lol so did u do an ABF? or was it the 9a?

[swiftkid 1]

KR actually but its pretty much the same as the 9A

[rusty bolts 0]

KR actually but its pretty much the same as the 9A

yer, saying that i already have a full set of kr cam carriers which i think are the same as the ABF lol so if worst comes to worst iv got those! would you know if fitting the kr exhaust cam really helps the ABF or not ive heard of it being done but i have also herard the ABF cams are best overall!

[swiftkid 1]

to be honest i've heard same as you, from what i've heard you don't really gain anything from putting KR cams in, its just the 9a swap you do.