Coilovers or Shocks Advice Please

[IrishG60 0]

Hiya guys,

 

I'm on a very limited budget (who isn't these days)...

 

Shocks are in real need of replacing.. should I get coilovers (can' only afford a JOM set for 250) or a GMax Sports Suspension Kit... (same price)

 

Really need advice on this... also should I replace top mounts when doing this?

[Critical_Mass 10]

Hi mate,

 

Theres a suspension discussion thread under the 'Drive train' section, would be good to take a look under that thread.

 

To be honest if you are on a tight budget and its an 'emergency' (keep car on road, MOT time etc) you'd be best getting a decent set of second hand shocks and springs. I've had a set of the cheap coilovers (v-maxx) and they were awful! wish i'd saved my money. If you can hold out I would recommend saving a bit and spending more on your suspension.

 

Whether you get shocks/springs or coilovers will be down to your own preference. But i can however recommend the KW coilovers, nice ride, great around the twisties and not too hard at all. Dont get tiring over longer journeys.

[Supercharged 2]

On a budget of less than £500 just stick to standard Sachs / Boge shocks from either GSF or VW spares - will be about £150 for all 4 and budget another £50 for top mounts, rear bumpstops and the upper spring platform.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Or ring Julian at Balancemotorsport, he can bash you out a set of Bilstein dampers and springs for around £250.

[Corrado Maxximus 0]

Hello,

 

 

I'm interested this posting, £250 is pretty cheap. I've heard Weitec Ultra GT are pretty good as well.

 

R

[IrishG60 0]

This is so confusing.. everyone is giving different advice... some say AP coilovers are the way to go... others that the Weitec Ultra GT set up is best... others state that nothing less than 500 quid should even be considered...

 

Reality is that I want to lower it slightly to improve the look... at standard factory height it's unbelievably high... but don't have a grand to spend...

 

I've limited my options to either the AP Coilovers or the Weitec GT kit... does anyone have experience of either?

[davidwort 0]

for your budget I'd look for a Koni damper kit with lowering springs, you just won't get the quality of parts if you go for cheap coilovers, it'll end in tears, seen so many siezed/broken coilovers, they'll last a winter or two if you're lucky.

Or you could keep an eye out for a second hand kit.

[Critical_Mass 10]

As what has been said in all the above.

 

Spend more and get some nice coilovers. If your budget doesnt stretch that far, forget the coilovers and get some Koni shocks and springs. i wouldnt uby cheap coilovers imo - they're crap

[Neil VR6 0]

As what has been said in all the above.

 

Spend more and get some nice coilovers. If your budget doesnt stretch that far, forget the coilovers and get some Koni shocks and springs. i wouldnt uby cheap coilovers imo - they're crap

 

Agreed, you get what you pay for with suspension more than anything else IMO

[Critical_Mass 10]

^^^

 

and i found that out the expensive way. Hottuning will give you the drop but the ride will be terrible. I had my v-maxx (same as hottuning) fitted for a month or so and i got rid... thats how bad they were.

[Neil VR6 0]

I had cheap FK Highsports on my G60 and they were way too bouncy

[StuartFZR400 0]

This is so confusing.. everyone is giving different advice... ?

 

I've got my blinkers on and saw the top few threads; they seem to be saying what I've got in mind too; dont buy coilovers, as you cannot buy decent ones for 250. Therefore buy the best normal shocks you can for 250.

 

I can vouch for Bilstein, I had a set of sports ones on mine and was very happy - you pay for what you get, and they were built to last. Cheapo-ones will just blow after a couple years and probably feel wallowy after a few months.

 

Only your shocks are gone? Therefore you can use your current springs? Sounds about right, unless the springs are broken/snapped. Technology on springs is more crude, so slightly cheap ones are ok; but generally you can find ok ones, even VW ones, cheaply - look around. Best bet, try someo of the above suggestions to buy (as the Mods say).

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've got my blinkers on and saw the top few threads; they seem to be saying what I've got in mind too; dont buy coilovers, as you cannot buy decent ones for 250. Therefore buy the best normal shocks you can for 250.

 

Those of us who've been around the block with these cars are naturally going to recommend staying away from the cheap coilovers. When price is deciding factor, the options are quite limited!

 

I can vouch for Bilstein, I had a set of sports ones on mine and was very happy - you pay for what you get, and they were built to last.

 

Yeah I think it's the Bilstein B12 Julian does for a good price, with cheapy springs. I'm sure it all came in under £300. Springs aren't as critical as dampers in terms of build quality imo. The worst that'll happen is one might snap, but they're all made from the same spring steel, it's just the rates that vary.

[StuartFZR400 0]

This is so confusing.. everyone is giving different advice...

 

Reality is that I want to lower it slightly to improve the look... at standard factory height it's unbelievably high... but don't have a grand to spend...

 

Again, you must be getting advice elsewhere, as first off the top Mod said the cheapest but safe option is from GSF (the shop). Its up to you if you want to go as cheap as this - its your call.

 

However, you mentioned a figure of 250, hence Mr Wire popped on to suggest a better system but within your budget. At this point you've got two options.

 

Then someone pops on with another option, but its not something the Mods mentioned and therefore I'd put this lower on my list of what to buy. Secondly, Im not sure you can buy those within budget.

 

Your other option is to try and find VAG shocks going cheap; an outlet, or maybe ebay.

 

Personally I found Billies on ebay very cheap, about £50 brand new. I then used original springs, but I could've bought lower ones. Personally I wanted a 30mm drop and couldn't find any, everything was 40mm; its personal preference.

 

You've then got to factor in setup price; who is fitting these? If its you, then you'll have to pay someone to align them properly, as your camber etc can be miles out. Affecting handling and tyre wear.

 

Those are your decent options within your budget. People here are saying to stear clear of cheap coilovers.

 

Why do you want coilovers?

 

Coilovers are simply a shock and spring as one component; but typically guys on here are talking about the adjustable ones (expensive - you're paying for the adjustment), for ride height and damping. Why do you want to do this? Are you into fettling with these settings, or considering racing? If you are, then you probably know more than many people one here; in which case you're looking for feedback on brands - well we've said Bilstein, theres also koni, etc. Basically you'll find seperates cheaper than coilovers when looking at the best brands (as mentioned in the discussion thread Here).

[Neil VR6 0]

Coilovers generally won’t last as long at dampers and springs. You’ve got a fine thread on coilies which are prime targets for salt and muck to get trapped in. The KW units have a special coating/galvanisation which cuts down on this massively but again they’re expensive – you pays yer money an’ all that. Cheap ones will corrode quickly and you’ll end up with seized spring platforms and having to grind off you old seats (in addition to them not giving you a good ride). The great thing about standard springs and dampers is that the dampers can get all rusty and corroded but still work perfectly. In terms of day to day use if you want to fit and forget I'd always try to find a set of springs and dampers personally.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Coilovers generally won’t last as long at dampers and springs.

 

All cars with McPherson struts have 'coil over damper' suspension, so the term 'coilovers' is actually quite a daft and pointless one :D Especially when folk say "my mate says coilovers are crashy and crap"! That just translates as ALL mcpherson suspensions being crashy and crap :lol:

 

Anyway Friday afternoon nit picking aside, you're dead right on the corrosion side of things but as far as actual damper rod / tube and spring wear go, there's no difference between 'normal' and 'ride height adjustable' setups. Again, it's purely down to the quality of the materials used and how it's driven.

 

Not a lot of people realise that dampers actually bend when you corner hard (hence why you never see alloy dampers) and this bending is what pretty much wears out the piston rod and tube. So naturally a hard driven car will eat through it's dampers far quicker than a pensioner's car..... and that goes for 'normal' and 'ride height adjustables' alike....

 

You can actually get special top mounts, bearings and spring designs to reduce this bending related wear on some setups. Pretty pricey tho.

[StuartFZR400 0]

Indeed wire; coil over etc. But I think common folk mean the adjustable sorts; and as I say not necessary if he doesnt need the adjustment factor.

 

However, heres a question for you (not having bought the adjustables); do the adjustable coilovers typically come as one pre-assembled unit, opposed to shock plus spring? And therefore mean if the absorber within an adjustable (coilover) was to leak, you have to replace the whole unit, ie inclusive of spring(s)?

 

* I say springS, as typically you'd replace both sides to keep even performance.

 

Do we now go onto oil versus gas shocks?.... :tongue:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, I was just being a geeky nerdy pillock mate :D

 

Yes matey, adjustables come with springs, dampers, spring perches and top plates as assembled units.

 

Higher priced sets are indeed rebuildable. For instance if you look at the top of the damper body on a KW V3, you'll notice a removable seal cover. Undo that and you can reduce the damper to it's component parts and replace what ever is worn out (the piston assembly usually).

 

Cheaper ones are 'pressed over' or spot welded shut and not designed to be rebuildable.

 

It's worth remembering that because adjustables all use the same diameter springs (with a few exceptions), you can choose from 100s of different spring rates and brands and really get that ride quality / handling compromise spot on.

You can even fine tune the 'helper' springs (shorter, secondary spring to stop the main spring dropping when jacked up) to further improve handling.

 

So adjustables aren't purely for going low, they are for tuning the ride and handling. People who want to slam to the dust should stick to the cheap schitt imo because dropping a car to the floor on expensive adjustables is a waste of time and money. What's the point of an expensive damper if there's no suspension travel to actually use it's damping properties?

 

Sorry, didn't mean to rabbit on....

 

Gas or oil?

 

Twin tube oil is my preference :D

[StuartFZR400 0]

such a nerd ! lol

 

I know what the adjustment is for (almost as nerdy) and hence I see fettling a small waste of time for the road, but a huge benefit for alternative tracks. You're never going to suit every road type with one setup IMO.

 

Ah, not only taking the shock out, but you can rebuild them - nice. I rebuilt a pair of rear shocks once, as the top came off. The oil was nasty black and even watery. Thought I'd have a go, as seen as its a job I've done on the bike - now those really are built for fettling and rebuilding.

[IrishG60 0]

Thanks a million guys.. great thread and really helped me decide what I needed...

 

Went for Weitec Coilover GT combination in the end... it' give the drop and performance I wanted...

 

Again, thanks a mill to everyone who posted... this is a great Forum. :clap:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Glad we could help, even if I do end up going off on tangents :lol:

 

You're never going to suit every road type with one setup IMO.

 

You're absolutely right! Same goes with every tyre compound, every ambient temperature (affects oil viscosity), dry versus wet, smooth versus coarse tarmac and so on....

 

Factory suspension has fixed ride height, fixed compression and fixed rebound.

 

Even adjustables with just rebound adjustment can reduce the compromising. Turn the dampers up a click or two over summer, and down a click over winter. Take seconds, but has a good effect :D

 

Dampers with adjustable bump and rebound, well now you're virtually not compromising at all.

 

Delphi's magnetic dampers..... pretty much the perfect solution!

[StuartFZR400 0]

Turn the dampers ... down a click over winter.

 

More like cut down on the mince pies over xmas - lol

 

 

(you know i dont mean it)

[Toad 0]

Not a lot of people realise that dampers actually bend when you corner hard

 

This bending can cause them to lock out too... Was reading Harry Metcalfes column about his Clio in EVO this month.

[Owen VR6 0]

Thanks a million guys.. great thread and really helped me decide what I needed...

 

Went for Weitec Coilover GT combination in the end... it' give the drop and performance I wanted...

 

Again, thanks a mill to everyone who posted... this is a great Forum. :clap:

 

How did they turn out?

 

Mine are in need of replacing and i'm swaying towards these. :D

 

Cheers

[John-M 0]

So naturally a hard driven car will eat through it's dampers far quicker than a pensioner's car.....

 

What about if a 'pensioner' drives hard ? :) My wife often grumbles about my driving - 'You don't slow down for corners'.