Supercharger stresses

[muppetlab 0]

Considering a bit of a bolt on performance gain via a vortech supercharger. My ole gal is a bit long in the tooth, is a supercharger just going to rip the engine to pieces if its not in the flushes of youth? Any one with experience of one on a daily? Do they increase heat a lot or mpg? cheers Jez

[buttles 0]

Jez, I will pm you my phone number for a chat about the VF charger. Not a sales pitch, just living with as a dailey. Neil

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I ran one as a daily 4 or 5 years ago. Stage 2 (8psi) and then later, Stage 3 (12psi).

 

I stuck the charger onto a 130K old engine and it was fine, standard compression and stock head bolts too. Although if I did it again I would use ARP rod and head bolts to keep it together.

 

I experimented with short intakes, intercoolers, water injection, OBD2 conversion, several different maps etc etc but I was never fully happy with it tbh. The boost just starts coming in at 4000rpm and peaks at 7000rpm, so you never really feel the acceleration on a daily basis as 4 to 7K is not a rev band you can use often on crowded roads. Then there was the whine / rattle noises from the charger. Cool at first, but soon got irritating and embarrassing with people waiting for the bus looking perplexed as I drove past them :lol:

 

That was also in the early days of the charger development, so the mapping wasn't perfected and it stalled a lot, the MAF clipped easily (exceeded it's 5V max output - which shuts the injectors off), part throttle shunting etc etc.

 

Vince did eventually solve all the S/C problems and I tried a few later installs with his maps and they drove really well.

 

If you like that kind of power band, go for it. MPG doesn't take too much of a hit with stage 2 to be honest.

 

If you prefer more midrange clout and no whining noises, a turbo is the better option imo. Not because it's a band wagon thing, but it genuinely does make a VR6 night / day faster.

 

You can see some pictures, dyno plots etc etc in the first few pages of the forced induction VR6 thread.

[muppetlab 0]

Hi Kev, yep i have read yours and the stealth turbo threads in awe but to be honest i cant really justify the 4 odd grand that it would cost. I did consider an r32 conversion but again the costs mounted up so the supercharger appeared to offer bolt on peformance gains for a modest investment. To be honest i have solid engine mounts and heavily stiffened suspension so am falmiliar with vibration and rattles and the supercharger whine was quite appealing :D

Bit dissappointed that the power comes on so high in the rev band as i always thought superchargers provided a smooth consistent power delivery in contrast to a turbo which only provided its power when on boost. The running issues are a concern too as its my daily and i have just sepnt 10 days without a car after a coil pack blew up. Now all the ignition has been overhauled the power is much better and soooo smooth now but i still have that itch to make the old vr just that little bit quicker, and give it the power that it looks like it should provide. cheers Jez

[Jim 2]

Problem is that, by the time you buy the charger kit, and factor in the installation (as well as stuff like the headbolts, etc) it doesn't exactly work out as a cheap option... certainly not up to 5k like a turbo installation but still 2.5k I'd imagine?

[muppetlab 0]

I dont mind getting oily myself but still need to get it mapped and the head bolts as you say, to be honest i think i will look at boosting the n/a engine with a cam and maybe an inlet manifold and look to other things like methanol injection systems!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Positive displacement chargers like Eatons are the ones that provide smooth power with low down grunt. Centrifugal chargers like the Vortech need a lot of rpms to generate boost. The Rotrex appears to be a good half way house because although it's still a centrifugal, it does behave differently to a Vortech.

 

I've been S/Ced and Turboed for 5 years, daily, and it's never let me down since the teething problems were sorted :D I have absolutely no fear in jumping in it right now and driving to John O Groats or Lands End :D

 

No form of tuning on the VR6 is cheap. Just cams and a remap is the wrong side of £700 all in, and that's cheap Schimmel ones. Well over a grand if you use Schrick 268 cams!!

 

I keep saying this, but if I could start over, I would skip all the piece meal mods and just save up for a Turbo kit from the start :D Or to put it another way, over the first 3 or 4 years of ownership, I spent approx £10K in Schrick intakes, cams, throttles, supercharger shennanigans and other assorted paraphanalia, but I wasn't really satisfied with any of it. It cost me half that in parts for the turbo install and I'm over the moon with it, so I wish I'd just gone that route from the start :D

 

I should have known better really because I went through all that with my MK2 16Vs aswell, trying to get power from them, then bought a Turbo Technics 16V and wish I'd done that to start with, LOL!

 

Still, it's all good experience I guess :D

[big ben 10]

i was lucky and brought one already done... but turbo is definately the way forward, take your car down to vince and get some brakes, you wont need another car again

 

im using mine daily as well now, loving it! :grin:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good man, you can't beat a daily fix of turbo fun :D I hate it putting it away every night after work!

[big ben 10]

Good man, you can't beat a daily fix of turbo fun :D I hate it putting it away every night after work!

 

same here! i would drive it loads more but the amount of fuel im going through at the minute is insane :lol:

 

its good to be using it now though, winter is going to be a killer though unless i get that racelogic TC

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah same here, LOL!

 

If I drive it just to work and no where else, I can make a tank last a month, maybe more. It's just all the joy rides that canes all the gas!!

 

I can't really afford the Racelogic, but after my experiences last winter, I think it's a good and sensible investment I'm willing to stretch to :D

[big ben 10]

think i will try and stretch to it as well if i can, looks bloody brilliant

[greasegriff 0]

In my humble opinion (and bearing in mind I haven't had any experience in a turbo'd C) the supercharger route is a pretty good way to go. OK, you're not going to get as much power as a turbo, but it's relatively hassle-free (from my experience so far anyway) and at relatively small expense. All the guys on here who seem to be running turbo's seem to be changing hoses here, pipes there....I'm doing at least 40 miles a day and have had no issues what so ever.

 

I would love to have a go in a turbo and I'm sure I'd fall in love, but 300bhp from a SC is good fun and mine seems to kick in around 2500-3000rpm - after 5000rpm it goes mental. All that and I'm getting around 26mpg cruising on the motorway at 90-100 for my commute, I think 30 would be achievable if I was more sensible. A tank of petrol will last me about 350 miles doing my fast motorway commute mainly.

 

A few weeks ago I did a 400 mile round trip from Cardiff to Liverpool in 30+ degree heat and it was fine all the way...engine temps sat around 106, up to 110 when I booted it, and that was four up.

 

Personally, I love the noise it makes. I'm no chav but like a good engine note and it's certainly got that now.

 

Just my 2p but I think if you're looking for hassle-free power, SC is hard to beat.

 

:tumbleweed:

[rsgntx 0]

reading through the thread, you got some good replies! my first question is; are you qualified to do the work yourself? mistakes on install can be expensive! well if you can then jim's assessment on the cost is pretty close! if you can't you are going to have to factor in a lot more money my guess is at least x 2 based on your cars mileage!

 

fitting either turbo or sc is going to show up any problems with your engine really quick. either turbo or sc will require some re-build of the engine to begin with. once you open the engine up you can count on finding things that will need to be done, more money. turbo will require a lot more to be done than sc. easy example would be an up-rated clutch which will mean you might as well do the timing chains, more money!

 

i have driven both turbo and sc. of the two the turbo is without doubt the quicker as both bhp and torque are greater! can you use all that bhp and torque through the front wheels? well no not all the time sure racelogic makes it more manageable but kills the extra bhp and torque to do it! I am not saying turbo is not the way to go! I think its a great option and one i nearly took.

 

I decided for sc for two reasons one is I think in an old engine it is going to need more maintenance, more money and second was a personal liking for sticking with what VW were into at the time the car was made! good luck with your choice its a great one to have!

[muppetlab 0]

After all the replies i think i am going the traditional route, i just cant make the figures work, and with the extra expense of mapping and potential rebuild the supercharger just isnt worth it on my car. If the engine was good and the gearbox maybe but i can see it doing to much damage to an already frail old girl. Not to mention the insurance hike. I have other projects that demand my time and money so will have to put it on hold for now. Once the VR is my 2nd car i think a complete strip and rebuild is in order including maybe sc or turbo, but thats a few years off. Thanks for all the help but i have been scared off now. and am saving my pennies. :D