VR6 Head gaskets and rip offs.....(allegedly)

[Diesel Junior 0]

Hi folks greetings from Spain.......Vr6 running like a dream (120k km) however on returning to the car today the tell-tale pool of coolant fluid all over the garage floor. Having changed the water pump and all the hoses to silicone last year the problem wasn't there so VW plugged in the dreaded steam machine and the problem is at the front end of the engine, ie on the side of the engine facing the radiator, fans etc.....now VW are going to take the front end of the car off to see whether the problem is a small hose somewhere or (as i fear) the head gasket since there was some of the dreaded cream on the underside of the coolant expansion cap. VW seem to think so as well and wait for this one........they quoted me €6000 (yes you read that right) to fix the cylinder head gasket, skim the head, re-installation blah blah. Now as you've probably guessed i only have a very basic mechanical knowledge but this is beyond the pale......Having spoken with some of the Corrado members over here they reckon its the gasket and most go with a ball park figure of about €1300 all in what with 2-3 days of labour and the the kit itself. Any thoughts, advice, support much appreciated as a Daewoo Matiz rental car is hanging over me for the next couple of weeks :censored: :gag:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

6000 Euros :shock: You could buy a complete brand new R32 engine for that over here!

 

Well first of all check the infamous 'crack pipe', the thermostat housing and the little hose that connects to the heat exchanger on the block, and the heat ex' itself.

 

Although mayo on the coolant cap isn't a good sign :( Does the coolant smell of exhaust?

[Diesel Junior 0]

Didnt get to sniff the coolant i was too busy preparing the 'Right then, fire up the Matiz' line, its a 1.0 you know!!! Thanks for the advice about the tubes, we shall see but 6k is just priceless, i feel like the granny who calls out the plumber on Christmas day and gets charged £400 to tighten a tap. Hang on local radio playing Sweetbox 'everything is going to be alright', a good sign although the dreaded mayonnaise is not. Been through too much with this car - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92717 - it will rule the waves again..........

[Jim 2]

Would be cheaper for you to hire a car & trailer, and drive / tow the car to a good specialist in the UK, get the work done RIGHT (which I wouldn't trust VW to do in a million years!) and tow it back again rather than pay 6000 euro!

 

I think Kev's shout on the crack pipe is a good one. I've never heard of a head gasket going in such a way, when the car is parked, that it just dumps its coolant all over the floor. It's normally when it's being driven that it goes pop!

 

Keep us posted with your progress!

[corrado9a 0]

Hi Mathew

 

i dont know from which stealer you got that quottation but , take the car and run the other way, FAST. Usual VW quotes for this job are about 1300-to 1500 euros, and local shops can do that even cheaper.

 

Nevertheless, I highly doubt that a HG would leave a pool of coolant over the garage floor, not even if you left the car parked runing the nuts off it for a loooong time. With the engine runing for little time to get in or out i dont see how a HG would pool coolant.

I concur with check the crack pipe, the thermostat housing, with the little hose, and also the oil heat exchanger. If this last part is cracked it will pour oil because it runs higher pressure, in the watter and thus the mayo in the water water bottle.

 

I can even bet you 20 euros for it :)

[Diesel Junior 0]

€20? You're on!! Let's hope it's the infamous crack pipe, it has to be the lesser of the evils....I'd been in the car for about an hour and there was absolutely no problem at all. I parked it, went upstairs and something broke while the car was stationary so i agree it's a bit strange for a HG to go in this way, don't think there will be any news till Monday/Tuesday and will advise. Meanwhile, i couldn't drive away in the Matiz so stumped up an extra €3 a day for a fire-breathing Fiesta 1.4. It's a remarkable car as it has a 4 speed interior fan which works on ALL four speeds. Amazing. SP '9a' the 'stealer' in question is VW Alfaz del PI. Maybe this is their revenge after member of Spanish club sent me this gold mine website.....http://www.corrado-teile.de/shop/index. ... rrado.html :clap:

[Diesel Junior 0]

No news yet......the 'overloaded' dealer hasn't had the chance to loosen a nut on the slam panel as yet.....on reading various posts the dreaded crack pipe would seem to be suspect number one so if it is, with the front of the car taken off are there any other of these hoses that we should change at the same time? There seem to be two running off the oil cooler if there are any others please let me know. We changed the main ones last year to a Samco silicone kit BTW. According to this website http://www.corrado-teile.de/shop/advanc ... pe&x=0&y=0 the CP is €19.95, so the stealer price will be.........???????? :shrug:

[Diesel Junior 0]

It's that Scooby Doo moment when the mask comes off the crook's face and they all shout 'It's the janitor'!!!! Well have just got back from the stealer and the blame lies with.............one of the pipes from the oil cooler. Darned pipe spilt, bye bye G12. So far, so good.....the stealer ordered the two pipes which go from the oil cooler and they arrive today. Me being me i made a beeline for the famous crack pipe and asked that they change this as well. As said, i am no mechanic but given the notoriety of this pipe and the fact that it costs only €25 it would be daft not to change it since the bumper, slam panel and headlights lie on floor of the workshop right now. For reasons i dont understand the mechanic really didnt want to change it, saying that it was 'inecessario' along with grim warnings about the thermostat......Now for the next problem, there does seem to be some oil in the coolant. Is looking for this really going to be a needle in a haystack job? What would be the procedure for this, a compression test? Well, any advice would be much appreciated :notworthy:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If there is oil in the coolant, it's usually one of two things:-

 

1) The heat exchanger (aka oil cooler) has corroded internally and oil / coolant are mixing. This is actually quite common where people have not used the right amount of coolant additive.

 

2) An oil gallery in the head is contaminating a coolant gallery via split gasket.

 

You can do a coolant system pressure test and your man should know how to do this.

[Diesel Junior 0]

The first being the lesser of the two evils i guess? Will go for the compression test in the New Year when i come back to Spain after Xmas but i wont be getting VW to do it as the 'it's just an old car' is really beginning to grate, they seem to see the car as something of a nuisance, until the credit card comes out mind you...... :(

[Jim 2]

Really might be worth getting it trailered to a specialist somewhere (if there are any in Spain?!) rather than letting VW ruin it mate!

[Diesel Junior 0]

Well they have it now Jim and i trust them to replace these three pipes but for more detailed analysis i can go elsewhere. There is a British mechanic used by the club here in Spain just 20 miles from here and he specializes in head gaskets so thats where i will be going in the New Year....

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The first being the lesser of the two evils i guess? Will go for the compression test in the New Year when i come back to Spain after Xmas but i wont be getting VW to do it as the 'it's just an old car' is really beginning to grate, they seem to see the car as something of a nuisance, until the credit card comes out mind you...... :(

 

Significantly lesser of the two evils!

 

Honestly, you would know if the Head gasket had blown across a cylinder and coolant gallery!

 

If the only symptom is oil in the coolant and it otherwise drives OK, I would say it's the heat exchanger.

 

And yeah, don't take it to a VW dealer. The vast majority of them are clueless and you're paying extortionate amounts of money for that cluelessness!! You'd be better off towing your car to the nearest Zoo and handing the tools over to the nearest Orangutang.

 

Dealers and cars. Think of that relationship as AirFix model kits. "Yeah thanks for making the bits for me, but I'll take it from here thanks". :D

[Diesel Junior 0]

:clap: great post! OK, so if the HG had gone the engine bay would be splattered/pebbledashed with G12? The car drives like it always has, it's the smoothest unit this size of a V12 Jag. Only thing is that if its the heat exchanger, off comes the bumper, slam panel again. Oh well, thats for the New Year but a compression test would still be a logical idea, what do you think? The VW mechanics to be honest are very good (ignoring the inertia over the crack pipe) it's the clowns in the murky depths of the office who evidently were hammerhead sharks in a previous life, they are number crunchers looking to nail you at every oppo that comes their way.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, if the HG pops, it over pressurises the expansion tank, you'd get bubbling and steam galore and the temp gauge on the dashboard would rocket past 100!

It would also be down on power and run very roughly.

 

Try the cheapest things first like the coolant system plastics and the heat exchanger and go from there. If not those, at least they've been replaced and can be forgotten about :D

[Diesel Junior 0]

Thanks Kev, its pointing to the oil cooler then....i see your point about doing the cheapest items first, question is though should i go to VW and ask them to order the oil cooler and the two o ring seals and to put this in while they are doing the pipes? I dont like giving them the extra work after their attitude this morning but if i dont and i go elsewhere in the New Year they will have to take off the front end again to get at the oil cooler i take it? €€€€€€€€€€

[WigsVR6 0]

To me it would make sence to get the oil cooler replaced whilst the front end is off. Save lots of pennies in the long run on repeat work being carried out.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Agreed! It's a nasty job doing anything on the front of a VR6 block in situ!

[Diesel Junior 0]

And here is the latest update! Took your advice, fired up the rental car and headed for the Stealer.....was met with open arms. Anyway, the pipes have been ordered and the O ring seals as well, one of which was barely clinging to the water pump.....the mechanic was particularly keen to show me....the oil cooler, which, surprise, surprise had oil in the water and he thinks this is the origin of the oil-in-the-G12 problem. 3 hours previously a new oil cooler and its two seals had already been ordered and they are en route from Barcelona to be fitted tomorrow and so hopefully i should get the car back on Thursday - with the HG untouched! :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good stuff :D

[corrado9a 0]

i forgot this thread for a couple days and missed all the action. :)

Is good news to know that it was the oil cooler aka heat exchanger. It is very common to find they are broken. My car turned oil cooled after a track session once. Its has taken ages to fully clean the watter passages...

I think you owe me a beer now...

 

by the way:

" There is a British mechanic used by the club here in Spain just 20 miles from here and he specializes in head gaskets so thats where i will be going in the New Year...."

who are you talking about.

[Diesel Junior 0]

Beer no problem, nos vemos en la proxima concentracion si? The guy in La Nucia i dont know his name but he is said to be very good, maybe not needed now, we shall see. Should get the car back tomo....BTW have you seen my post on Spanish forum about the low mileage VR6 for sale in Madrid?

[corrado9a 0]

yes, some friends and me saw that car few months ago, we then the guy saw my car and decided he did not wanted to sell and seems like it is back on sale again. I may even have someone interested. shall see...

car is real good with minor points.

[Diesel Junior 0]

Is that a correct price though at €5,500? Cars are usually more expensive here i would have thought it would go for more, especially when you see what the Germans are paying on autoscout24.com. Anyway, i have returned with the Corrado but the stealer hit me for a thumping €744.46c. I love this car but at 17-y-o it better behave during the next month or it might find itself on autoscout too!!!! Lets pray that it was the heat exchanger as i dont want to change the head gasket after this!! Interestingly the stealer hit me for €64 for the heat exchange yet €79 (!!!!) for the correa (belt for water pump, alternator etc). Time for a gin and tonic methinks......

[Diesel Junior 0]

Woe is me.....had the car back for 4 days now and the dreaded mayo is on the underside of the coolant expansion cap. Now i presume the mechanic had cleaned this during the €744 of work so this could be ominous. Before you say 'why didn't you clean it?', well i would have done if i had been able to open the bonnet....as they didn't reconnect the bonnet cable properly and so it was another trip to the stealer this morning. Oddly the mechanic wasn't over-concerned with the mayo find saying that 'drops of oil often do find their way in, especially thru the heating system'. I am worried especially as the G12 seems to have an oil-like sheen to it. In the good news department the MFA now works a treat after the fabled 'disconnect the battery for 2 hours' trick won the day. Any advice much appreciated, Happy Chridtmas/Bon Nadal to one and all :mad2: