2.8 OBD 2 TURBO - Calling for advise

[Rams 0]

Yesterday must have been my lucky day, I came accross a guy breaking a Golf VR6 P reg whilst collecting some second hand parts for my van. I started the conversation with him as his Golf was Mystic Blue.

 

I ended up buying everything, 2.8 vr engine with gearbox, air con, with everything required, spare gearbox, ram air induction kit, bonrath power roah and a few other bits. Some of these items I will be selling on later.

 

OK, bit I need the advise and guidence with is what I do now.

 

I always recognised a good place to start was with a spare 2.8 engine, is this a AAA engine code? Next step, strip engine and buy some ARP conrod and engine bolts. Woosner pistons, conrods etc to make a nice job of it.

 

Now, do I have the 2.8 made into 2.9 or do I check the condition first and have a clean up? Is the gearbox geared different to my vr gearbox? As the new parts came from a newer vw will this have been improved on what I have?

 

Can I do this job with advise from here and passing that knowledge to my mechanic Chubby? Or shall I build the engine then take the car down to Vince or DG to install the turbo?

 

I have all the parts required now for OBD2, so if the engine is coming out, I can have that fitted and the air con. I know it defeats the object slightly for power gains, but I would rather make the car as comfortable as one can with some refinements and power.

 

Problem is, my vr engine is running so well, it feels so alive now since doing the timing stuff etc. Can some people guide me down the right path. I did see some items for sale recently but looked yesterday and couldnt find them. Think they were JE pistons etc.

 

So, I have this spare lump in my friends garage, and looking forward to your valued advise. From this I can start my Turbo build.

[coullstar 0]

2.8 is just as good as 2.9 when turboing and should be slightly better in the longterm. Its what I have. OBD II is a good thing to have. I would just strip it down and get everything checked first then see what your working with then look at some parts and build the engine offline. You can then look at getting it installed. I would think the gearbox will work, try and get a 3.68FD and a diff of some sort.

 

Ive got some forged rods up for sale that are basically brand new. Looking for about £350 for them if your interested.

[chazrad 0]

Like Coullstar says, the 2.8L is fine when you go turbo. Being a slightly smaller capacity, it also means the cylinder wall thicknesses are greater so the block is a better starting point than the 2.9L, as I think a number of us have found. I too now run a stock displacement AAA 2.8L albeit with 8.5:1forged Wossners.

I am also now running OBD2 on my turbo setup, so the setup you plan to do is as per mine. If you've driven a stock OBD2 VR6, you'll know that with the electronic throttle, the car is smoother from the get-go. Also, off boost, the car behaves as smooth as stock too. I am also using a 4in MAF with an aftermarket chip in the ECU to control my setup; I imagine this is what you will do.

 

As Coullstar says, the best thing to do is strip the block right down first. You'll need to have it machined to fit perfectly with your pistons anyway so it'll have to be done. I reused the crank from the AAA block but all my ancils were carried over from my ABV block as most were new or pretty new. You'll need new bearings, shells, gaskets, probably chains and tensioners as well.

 

Re the gearbox, it is the same 02A regardless of whether its connected to a 2.9L or 2.8L engine. I would say a diff is pretty essential when going FI, and you'll find the grip out of tight corners and away from junctions will improve considerably. Whilst there, a full rebuild is sensible - as the gearbox has to come apart anyway, so budget for approx £1300 for the diff and a rebuild. Interestingly, I personally wouldn't recommend a 3.68 FD, simply because you won't need it with the turbo. My limited experience so far tells me that a bar of boost in a VR with standard gearing is more than quick enough! Also, the car will be juicy enough petrol-wise as it is with the turbo, and all the lower final drive will do is mean you are running at higher revs at any given road speed. It probably will aid acceleration slightly, but when you're on the motorway just cruising, the extra revs - and extra noise - might just be a nuisance you can do without. If anything, I am considering putting in a longer top gear (5th) from a diesel just so I can regain a little fuel economy when I'm not caning it; which, let's be honest is 90% of the time.

 

You'll love the turbo conversion. Its 3rd and 4th gear acceleration that always blows me - and 95% or all other road users - away. Its also the ability to hit the loud pedal in any gear and accelerate hard without having to change down that I adore - big torque is addictive. If you've driven a powerful turbo diesel recently, you'll know what I mean.

 

Re the build up, I think you'll at least need help with the down pipe. If you're talented like some on here, its all in a day's work. Me: I let The Phirm do it all. Mine was built onto the car and fabricated from 3in steel pipe. There is not alot of clearance down the back of a VR lump in a 'Rado to fit passed the steering rack and gear cables so it is timeconsuming to get right. There are also different ways to mount the turbo up. Many seem to use the turbo manifolds that you can buy off ebay, which mounts the turbo high up behind the block. Others like mine mount the turbo lower down and more out of sight. In which case, the standard 'crows feet' are used then a manifold is made up onto which the turbo is bolted. After the turbo comes the clever and intricate pipework which passes down under the car and mates up with your cat bypass or sports cat.

 

Other costs that you've not mentioned:

Don't forget air cooling - intercooler and pipework (which will probably need manufacturing), wastegate, quality blow-off valve, oil cooler and pipework, perhaps an oil swirl pot, inlet manifold - short runner or standard, camshafts (Schimmel 263s are highly regarded) very good brakes, (and possibly bigger wheels to fit), bigger injectors (probably 440cc or bigger), plugs and leads, oil feed and water cooling for the turbo, fuelling (consider a race pump in line with the standard in-tank pump (Walbro, Sytec and Bosch are common), uprating the engine and gearbox mounts, renewing the suspension bushings (polybushings or R32 bushes that some use), uprating suspension and top mounts, anti-roll bars, boost gauge, possibly an in-car electronic boost controller and EFR gauge etc. The list is extensive and you'll find that to do a turbo conversion properly is considerably more expensive than you think.

 

Actually, on second thoughts, the best advice is to save a chunk of money and buy a VRT with all the work done!! Albeit whilst sacrificing the satisfaction of doing it all yourself (or having it done for you) ...

Edited February 20, 2011 by chazrad

[Rams 0]

Thanks for your replies, its always good to be reminded that there are many components to making a turbo and it can easily spiral out of control. So buying a VRT is out of the question for me. I've recently had the car fully re sprayed, fitted Gaz Gold fully adjustable coilovers and polly bushes, all new engine mounts, front and rear eibach arb's, new chains, tensioners, guides, tappets, water pump, braided fuel hoses, braided brake lines, Jetex 2 box system into decat pipe. So I have at least a quarter of that list already. If I stay under a certain amount of boost/power, I can retain the standard fuel pump and lines, saving some initial costs. Is that correct information?

 

I've just thought, if I made my current engine a turbo one, use a spacer kit and get everything else plumbed in and the obd2. Possibly uprate the valves, bearings, shells and strap it all down with the ARP's. Would enable me to have a sensible VRT and gradually making the 2.8 block into a forge block with all the reinforcement and with some experience I would have built up will enable me to make a good job of the 2.8 block with lower compression pistons and forge internals.

 

What would you guys do if you were me having the 2 engines?

 

I knew I would need some form of traction control and I like the sound of the wavetrack system. I would be happy to achieve 320 / 340 bhp, more than happy infact untill I could make the new block more than capable of handling bigger power.

 

What roughly do you think I will need to spend to achieve 340/350 BHP? 3 to 4k for what I will call stage 1? Thanks for the offer on the forge items but until I know exactly the direction to take, it might work out cheaper for me to buy a kit or a bulk package?

[chazrad 0]

Well it does indeed sound like you've invested a fair bit getting your car up to a good start point for taking the power further. I'd seriously consider bigger brakes but I know of some VRT owners who haven't bothered...

My suggestion would be to leave your car as it is for the moment whilst building up the money to do the turbo conversion properly once. I wouldn't bother converting your current engine if you are at the same time going to be converting your 2.8L block.

You could spend £3-4K on good quality parts, but in your situation, I would seriously be tempted to save up and get someone like Vince to turbo the car. His stage 1 kit seems to be very well put together and everyone seems to be very happy with it - around 370bhp to boot.

[Rams 0]

I went today to drop off the engine lift and the chap I bought the bits from has given me a few more bits. Like another block with a duplex chain from Golf VR, plus the other engine which is a single chain. I believe the later golfs has the duplex chain so im thinking it must be stronger and that I should indeed build the 2.8 duplex one. Maybe your right, no point in spending twice especially as my engine is pulling well. Im running 288 as present but when I change the wheels for 17's, I will upgrade them to 312 or something similar. I will get the block sorted and speak to a couple of installers and see what they say.

[boost monkey 0]

Wouldn't this be better off in the blown VR thread, or has that gone with the old forum?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No it's still there mate.