R1 Vs Stage 4 and Charge cooled Vs Intercooled Vs Water Inj?

[raddo_g60 0]

Im a newb and wonder why so many people have the stage 4 charger and not the R1 if the R1 is the better one? What disadvantages does it have the R1? Something I should know? More fragile?

 

Also, ive no idea which way to go with cooling. Im again unsure why poeple dont use just water injection since it seems the cheapest? £310 for the kit. Is there more to it than this? Charge cooling Ive heard too many bad things about, such as that front mount Inter coolers are better anyway, and that charge cooling can be problematic.

 

HELP!

 

All help very welcome )

 

x

[W3RKD 0]

Im a newb and wonder why so many people have the stage 4 charger and not the R1 if the R1 is the better one? What disadvantages does it have the R1? Something I should know? More fragile?

 

proberly more to do with the extra cost.... r1 charger as no more fragile than any other g-lader..

[Rolyg60 0]

yeah i`d like to knowas well?

which is better R1 or stage 4 as my charger is overdue for a rebuild.

 

I use the car daily so I would prefer the boost to be smooth over the whole rev range is the r1 more like a heavly cam`ed car shite to 4 grand then ohh F****K?

 

Also i`d like to have a good reliabilityon the lump . Im guessing because of the lower pressures the stage 4 would be better than the R1?

 

Any answers?

 

Cheers

 

tom

[Dubcharged 0]

R1 is just an enlarged inlet on the charger. It should have all the flow work done as per stage 4 too. So theyare both internally flowed, but the R1 just has a bored out inlet - not that much of a difference though.

 

Interesting point about using water injection as opposed to an FMIC conversion. I'd like to see some tests on a raddo with the standard ic and water injection (aquamist) vs raddo with a big front mounted ic.

 

The water injection is generally more expensive than an FMIC, so needs to be that much better to warrant the cost.

[GazzaG60 0]

correct me if im wrong but r1 and s4 are yabba terms right.

 

id expect most of us to use either gworks or pitstop for charger jobs now anyway.

 

from what i can gather a s4 charger offers not a great deal over a standard one. conservetive porting by jabba.

 

mines a s4 like most. down to cost i think that most have the s4. also i think you need the induction kit for the R1 which yups the cost again.

[W3RKD 0]

porting the chargers improves the lowdown drivabilaty of the g60. and helps air flow, it pulley sizes that spin the charger faster ie. putting more strian on the oil seals /bearings .. you can easilly run a 65mm pulley on our chargers with out any relibality issues... as long as the charger is in good condition to start with ie no displacer wear etc.

[andycowuk 0]

some companies do a wide range of porting and prep work to the chargers....st1-st4 and R1....but one companies st4 (G-Werks) may be more heavily ported the another companies (Jabba) R1.

 

The more heavly ported the charger is the better the air flow out of it.....the delivery of boost through the rev range depends more heavily on the pulley size.

 

HTH

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Front mount IC with Aquamist is the way to go :lol: Comes into it's own during the summer months.

[W3RKD 0]

R1 is just an enlarged inlet on the charger. It should have all the flow work done as per stage 4 too. So theyare both internally flowed, but the R1 just has a bored out inlet - not that much of a difference though.

 

Interesting point about using water injection as opposed to an FMIC conversion. I'd like to see some tests on a raddo with the standard ic and water injection (aquamist) vs raddo with a big front mounted ic.

 

The water injection is generally more expensive than an FMIC, so needs to be that much better to warrant the cost.

 

sightly wrong there bilal.. :lol: the r1 has alot more internal porting "jabba terms again" it "should have" the lower chambers ported. and on ours we enlarge the upper chambers too....

[raddo_g60 0]

Ok now im confused! So what is Gwerks/Pstops "R1" spec called if its not R1? If people are spending so much anyway then why not go full out to top spec? I just dont get it. Is it that the R1 does not live up to the extra cost? Why is it available as an option then if nobody uses it. I must have heard of all but a few Cs with R1 charger.

Also somebody above said to use a Front mount Intercooler AND water injection? How does that work?

[W3RKD 0]

everyone has there own termanology for naming there specs of chargers. we dont really name them them but as everyone knows them as s4 etc we just use those terms as a guide too.. all of our chargers are ported to the same spec internally but we can also offer a larger spec too which has a huge exhaust that needs a special outlet see pic...

 

we have a customer that has charge cooler and w/inj and he is running in the region of 15deg inlet temps... (i dosent get much better than this.. this is what every serious g60 modder should aim to achieve .)

 

[G60Dan 0]

My Charger will be going G-weks way when it needs doing 8)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Also somebody above said to use a Front mount Intercooler AND water injection? How does that work?

 

That'll be me then...... I ran an Aquamist system on my 16V Turbo about 3 years ago, so here goes:-

 

Initially the car just had the standard Turbo Technics/RS Turbo front mount IC (about the same size as a G60 IC) and developed 205bhp with retarded ignition. I then tapped an Aquamist nozzle into the top of the IC, installed the system which was triggered by a MAP sensor set to 0.6 bar and then I threw a 60/40 mix of water/methanol in a 9 litre washer bottle (from a MK2 headlight washer Golf). The difference was immediately apparent and I then wound up the advance to 3 degrees over standard 16V!!! 221 bhp being the new figure with water :lol:

 

The car is now kicking out 265bhp under new ownership with a full width IC and Aquamist.

 

It makes a big difference and as I've said before, the inlet manifold is stone cold to the touch after a hard blast. That's the cooling effect Methanol has :lol:

 

No chargecooler can beat IC + H20 injection.

 

K

[raddo_g60 0]

What I meant was. How does it work, in that I thought Intercooler and water inj were completely seperate systems? As in IC cools charge by air passing through fast from front of car. Water inj injects water into cylinders? You talk about installing an aquamist nozzle into the top of the IC...can I assume that this is NOT water injection and more of an IC aid by spraying the intercooler to keep it even colder? Or have i got the complete wrong end of the stick? lol

 

Cheers guys

[Kevin Bacon 5]

As I said, I tapped an Aquamist nozzle into the output end of the Intercooler, so yes, you're getting the advantages of both the intercooled air AND the water/methanol spray.

 

Atomised water/methanol is then blasted into the chambers along with your fuel, hencing chilling the inlet manifolds.

 

Only Subarus and some Evos actually spray water onto the IC but that isn't water INJECTION, which Aquamist is.

 

Direct cylinder water injection is trickier to setup. A nozzle or two plumbed into the output of the IC is sufficient for most applications.

[raddo_g60 0]

I see. I think...why doesnt water affect/bugger up the fuel/air mixture then? And dont justs ay "because its water not fuel or air!" lol

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I see. I think...why doesnt water affect/bugger up the fuel/air mixture then? And dont justs ay "because its water not fuel or air!" lol

 

If you inject the right amount at the right time with the correct atomiser nozzle.....you'll be fine. Methanol is there to restore the flamefront (flammable properties) in the fuel/air mix as well as to cool. Pour some neat Methanol on your hand and see how cold it is! Imagine that flowing through your induction system :lol:

And water as you know contains Oxygen, so therefore introduces more of that into the mixture and water itself is also a coolant, thickening up the overall charge's density.

 

If you drive a normally aspirated car on a misty day, the engine generally performs better than on a hot dry day because of the airborne water the engine sucks in. Sure it's a small effect but noticeable tho. That's what water injection aims to achieve, but obviously on a bigger, more precisely metered scale!

 

Hope that kind of explains it.

 

People that first hear of water injection literally picture a load of injectors squirting water into the engine and get the wrong idea! Aquamist is precisely that, a mist....not a stream of water!

 

K

[Dubcharged 0]

 

sightly wrong there bilal.. :lol: the r1 has alot more internal porting "jabba terms again" it "should have" the lower chambers ported. and on ours we enlarge the upper chambers too....

 

 

Thanks G-man, whatever they call the R1, its still "conservative" :lol:

[raddo_g60 0]

Thanks so much> That really helped 8)

So front mount your looking at a few hundred. And then aquamist a further few hundred. Could you not just retain the original not so good corrado intercooler since the aquamist is soo good on its own?

 

Thanks for all your help so far though. G60 tuneing is making much more sense already.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thanks so much> That really helped 8)

So front mount your looking at a few hundred. And then aquamist a further few hundred. Could you not just retain the original not so good corrado intercooler since the aquamist is soo good on its own?

 

Yep you certainly can and that is what Dubcharged was talking about further up.

 

I'd personally plumb the water injector somewhere near that valve on the boost pipe.

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Yo,

 

I reckon that unless you went with a DIY jobbie a FMIC of a decent size would cost a bit more than "a few hundred", we're talking £400-600 for a kit here....,

 

Cheers

 

BigTartanG60

[raddo_g60 0]

Where as the aquamist kit is £310 for the kit. Hmm...what to go for. Perhaps I should by a corrado first lol

[LowG 0]

Iv done my own FMIC conversion on my G60 and if I remember it right it cost me quite a bit but cheaper than what tuners would charge certanly. Personally i would do the FMIC first as this is a more universal and long term piece of equipment. if i had a choice i would do a intercooled/charge cooled system which woult really work nice, i know someone that is doing this at teh moment so ill let you know how it goes. SO with the FMIC you have relaiability and gives better looks to your car.

[raddo_g60 0]

Why intercooled AND charge cooled? What would be your argument for that LowG?

[Dubcharged 0]

Intercooled and charge cooled would give even lower boost temps. The lower the better!!