8v Juddering type Problem

[Walesy 0]

Hi all,

 

I've had a problem with wifey's 8v since we bought it 6 months ago, whenever you release the clutch after changing gear it seems slightly harsh when re-engaging, it's hard to describe but it's just not as smooth as it should be and it's a bit annoying, it's not a major issue and wifey's not bothered by it but it's the kind of thing that ruins the driving experience for me whenever I take it out as I'm a fussy bugger!

 

So far I've changed engine and gearbox mounts which made little to no difference, and also cleaned out the throttle body which did nothing, checked all wiring which seems OK. The car's only done 82k miles and had a new clutch at around 70k.

 

Any suggestions as to what it could be? I was thinking it's engine related as opposed to something to do with the clutch but I'm starting to think it could be clutch related however due to the fact that it's only done 12K I'm reluctant to pay to have it changed without being pretty certain it's the culprit (baring in mind I've already spent out on parts that weren't really needed! :lol:)

 

I realise it's not an easy problem to diagnose with a vague description but if anyone has any suggestions as to what might be worth looking at or whether a fault with the clutch could cause this, I'd be grateful!

[Rams 0]

I think it would be worth checking that all mounts and suspension is a good place to start, are the subframe bolts in nice and tight, inc front bumper? Also, have you got rod change? check that the ball sockets to link rods are in good condition, or does your have cable change? The weights on the gearbox, are these secure and are all the gears easy to select?

 

I would also try the car in gear, handbrake on and lift clutch and see what engine movement you've got. People have been know to fit the front mount incorrectly or not do the bolt up correctly. What sort of mounts did you replace the engine with? You said all 3 mounts were changed.

 

What happens if you slowly change gear and slowly release the clutch? Is it any smoother? All the drive train could be in question so its probably a matter of trial an error. Im sure with the other peoples knowledge on here, we can help you solve the problem

[Walesy 0]

Gearbox is cable change (all rados are) and all bolts have been checked and are fine, we have tried the car on the rolling road to check engine movement and it's fine, the mounts were replaced by a VAG specialist and Corrado owner so they have been done correctly, I used mounts from VW and yes all 3 have been changed, plus the problem existed before changing the mounts so we can rule out that they've been wrongly fitted. The gearbox is as tight and smooth as you'd expect from a 80k car.

 

When slowly releasing the clutch it is a lot smoother.

 

Cheers for the suggestions :)

Edited March 22, 2011 by Walesy

[Supercharged 2]

Do you know what clutch was fitted mate?? Ie if it was a cheapo Mr Clutch part then it might be that...

[Walesy 0]

Fair point, I'll trawl through the paperwork to find out, could it be that a poor quality (gsf etc) clutch would cause the problem?

[Supercharged 2]

If it's an LUK or SASHS I wouldn't suspect it although it could be down to poor fitment or a damaged clutch fork / release bearing sleeve etc...

 

I'd try and have a look - may even be still under warranty

[Walesy 0]

P.S - when we put the car on the RR we gave it a power run for the sake of it and I was pleased to see it's giving 121bhp, what a beast :D

 

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

 

If it's an LUK or SASHS I wouldn't suspect it although it could be down to poor fitment or a damaged clutch fork / release bearing sleeve etc...

 

I'd try and have a look - may even be still under warranty

 

Hmmm, well if those are possibilities then maybe a clutch change is in order, I had ruled it out due to the fact that it was relatively new.

[Rams 0]

I thought some rads had rod change with ball sockets, my mistake then.

 

Does sound more clutch related. Have you changed the gearbox fluid and or checked the level?

[Walesy 0]

Nope, hadn't thought of gearbox fluid, tbh It doesn't seem to be a gearbox problem to me?

[Yandards 0]

More likely to be the new clutch, release bearing or fingers or even the release arm pivot being out of alignment slightly.

 

Suprised it needed a new clutch at 70k though, should be able to get loads out of an 8v clutch. It could be the flywheel has worn to the old clutch and this is causing the judder on re-engagement, unfortunately it's not likely to go away unless you get it skimmed flat and replace the friction plate :(

[Walesy 0]

Suprised it needed a new clutch at 70k though, should be able to get loads out of an 8v clutch.

 

Yeah I would have thought so too, although I bought it off a lady who'd owned it for 11 years so maybe she wasn't the most sympathetic of drivers when it came to clutch control :lol:

 

I think I'll have to bite the bullet and have a new clutch put on at some point, cheers for the posts :)

[Supercharged 2]

Slave cylinder may have been shot at 70k though - often then the owner thinks they need a new clutch so sticks it into the garage...

 

Same happened to my G60, new clutch at 59k then Master cyl then finally slave - £500 was spent by the previous owner to fix a £30 part that had failed!

[davidwort 0]

I've got an 8v on about 150K and have just done the clutch myself (was just about down to rivets on friction plates, still working OK just a bit heavy), I find it hard to believe the flywheel is damaged but there's a number of things (mostly that the others have pointed out already) that could contribute to the judder you're getting.

Unfortunately pretty much everything requires the box off to inspect.

It could be related to lack of correct lubrication of the gearbox splines or possibly even contamination of the new clutch friction surfaces, does it look like you have any bad oil/fluid leaks that could have got into the bell housing?, latter is unlikely though as mine was well 5h1tty with oil and leaking coolant from the head flanges but the bell housing only had worn off friction material in there, nice and dry.

8v has the same size clutch as the 16v's and G60 so should last a long time with reasonable use, VW may have specced slightly different part numbers but I can't really see there being much between them, slightly heavier duty on the 16v and G60 maybe.

Won't do any harm to bleed and remove and inspect the slave cylinder but it do seem more likely it's the clutch itself.

 

Edit: although you can't see much apart from the back edge of the flywheel, it might be worth unbolting the two covers on the back of the bell housing and having a look inside, possibly also remove the starter and have a peek in there

Edited March 22, 2011 by davidwort

[Rams 0]

Agree with above, it would still be worth dumping the oil and replacing depending when it was last done. I noticed a smoother change when I had this done. PS I have 2 new spring clips that hold the release bearing if you need one. I replaced mine as it disintegarted when removed.

[Supercharged 2]

As David says well worth checking the Slave - Wales, if you can take a pic of the top of the gearbox where the cables and slave is we might be able to see if it's original or not and if it's leaking fluid.

[Walesy 0]

EDIT - i'll go take a pic

 

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

 

There does seem to be a bit of oil around the slave and on top of the gearbox, although the levels are fine and the problems existed the whole time we've had the car?

 

Here's a pic;

 

 

And a couple of the car for good measure, yes it's bog standard with 4x4 ride height, and it's staying like that because it drives and handles bloody beautifully! :tongue:

 

 

:)

Edited March 22, 2011 by Walesy

[Supercharged 2]

Mate - needs to be a bit to the left to show the slave - you'll see the curly pipe feeding it...

[davidwort 0]

looks like the original old black cast iron slave cylinder to me

nice wiring to the reverse light switch and rad fan :)

[Supercharged 2]

Yeah sorry just had a closer look - wonder what happened to the wiring??!!

[Walesy 0]

Yeah the wiring is a bit sketchy in there, the lady I bought the car from had a son who was a fitter in the local Porsche dealer, he had done most of the work on the car in the last 5 years or so since he'd left school and started his apprentiship , including fitting the clutch - so my feeling is that he cocked up the fitting somehow! I think a new clutch and flywheel is in order!

[Yandards 0]

I've got an 8v on about 150K and have just done the clutch myself (was just about down to rivets on friction plates, still working OK just a bit heavy), I find it hard to believe the flywheel is damaged but there's a number of things (mostly that the others have pointed out already) that could contribute to the judder you're getting.

Unfortunately pretty much everything requires the box off to inspect.

It could be related to lack of correct lubrication of the gearbox splines or possibly even contamination of the new clutch friction surfaces, does it look like you have any bad oil/fluid leaks that could have got into the bell housing?, latter is unlikely though as mine was well 5h1tty with oil and leaking coolant from the head flanges but the bell housing only had worn off friction material in there, nice and dry.

8v has the same size clutch as the 16v's and G60 so should last a long time with reasonable use, VW may have specced slightly different part numbers but I can't really see there being much between them, slightly heavier duty on the 16v and G60 maybe.

Won't do any harm to bleed and remove and inspect the slave cylinder but it do seem more likely it's the clutch itself.

 

 

Edit: although you can't see much apart from the back edge of the flywheel, it might be worth unbolting the two covers on the back of the bell housing and having a look inside, possibly also remove the starter and have a peek in there

 

Agreed although depending on the use the flywheel could be nicely polished up, although again with removing the box to check it's a complete unknown.