Fuel but no spark dizzy vr6

[92DubyaPB 10]

Hi all, as title says I have fuel but no spark. Car has 164k on it. I can smell fuel and I've grounded a plug off the main lead and nothing. List of new parts, ignition coil, temp sensor, o2 sensor, spark leads, fuel relay and ecu relay. I've cleaned crank sensor and when it was running maf seemed to test good. Crank sensor 538 ohms, coil has 11.3 or 11.8v I don't remember. There was a block ground that fell off the body, bolt still in ground, just hanging. I couldnt find its home but i grounded it somewhere else. I apologize if this exists somewhere I can only find coil pack threads. I'm banging my head against a wall here, I'm lost and don't what to check next. I've had the car 3 weeks and it ran for 1 of them. Any help appreciated.

[92DubyaPB 10]

Oh it's a 1992 if that matters

[bruny 0]

Hi, by block ground do you mean earth strap? That could be the issue. Guessing that if you have power to the coil then that

rules out the common faulty ignition switch and probably the immobiliser? I have also had an ECU fail, so many possibilities. Good luck with it.

[92DubyaPB 10]

Yes the earth strap, I remounted it as I could not find where it went. I also forgot to mention it ran for about 10 min last night before no restart but o2 was not in yet. I also didn't think 1992 dizzy had immobilizer. I was thinking maybe hall sender since it has fuel? But I don't know how to test it. Ecu is original so maybe that's it but my local vw people are unwilling to help it seems. Is there a way to test without swapping it? It seems the coil is not getting the signal to start. I'm still searching for other threads and opinions but still no luck. Thanks for the reply though. I'm in Hudson Valley ny USA if anybody on here is near.

Battery and ecu unplugged for the night will try again tomorrow

Edited November 6, 2016 by 92DubyaPB

[chubbybrown 0]

Do these have ignition amplifiers like the valves?

 

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[92DubyaPB 10]

Yes, I have brand new icm or Amp whichever you prefer, and msd blaster 3. Started last night to make sure it was wired right and it was and ran great till it died 10 min in, then nothing. Put other new parts in today then tried, still nothing. That's when I started testing what I knew I could again and got the results above. Both new relays were put in before I ordered everything else

[92DubyaPB 10]

Ok so I hooked everything back up today, with jump box, no start, put battery charger with 12v 250amp jump feature and cranked for 10-15 sec and bam started up. It ran on its own power about 20 min with no issues until stalled. Ithe restarted for a second and then nothing after. About 180F coolant temp, 170F oil temp. I've heard hall sensors go bad cause of the engine heat? Is that true? I'm about to get distributor tomorrow unless suggested otherwise.

[seanl82 23]

Yeah front one located to the right of the front motor mount. It's a pain to get to, but possibly. It's at a right angle to the block and heat cycles cause the insulation to break down on the inner edge. Not too expensive and worth doing for peace of mind regardless.

[bruny 0]

Good call, replacement dizzy will reassure hall sensor issue, but symptons were similar to my failed ecu. It stopped for seemingly no reason, refused to start again for some time then started as though no issue until stopping again. Replaced ecu and cured it. We stripped ecu to find signs of burnout.... must admit it had a super chip fitted in the ecu some time in the past which may have caused the problem!?

[92DubyaPB 10]

Ok, picking up new dizzy this afternoon, comes with new rotor and cap too. I haven't opened up the ecu yet and was told no chip was ever in it, but I don't trust the guy I got it from. Where was it looking burnt out? And is it just a discoloration, or actually fried? Just trying to get info in case it still gives me issues. I appreciate the help

[92DubyaPB 10]

Good call, replacement dizzy will reassure hall sensor issue, but symptons were similar to my failed ecu. It stopped for seemingly no reason, refused to start again for some time then started as though no issue until stopping again. Replaced ecu and cured it. We stripped ecu to find signs of burnout.... must admit it had a super chip fitted in the ecu some time in the past which may have caused the problem!?

 

What did it look like burnt out?? It's still doing the same thing and I just want this thing running. Also where did you get yours from? I gotta get a new one or mine rebuilt. the only other thing I can think of is cam sensor, but I thought that would cut fuel and spark, no?

[robrado974 1]

There's no cam sensor on a 92, it's just the hall sender . As far as I know these are unavailable now . But Bosch may do one ?.

Edited November 9, 2016 by robrado974

[bruny 0]

Hi again.

Stripping ecu showed obvious signs of burnout, severe discolouring. I was fortunate as I had a spare from a broken car in stock.

You could pick up another ecu from a breaker. Is there an american equivalent of the forum? There is quite a lot of choice of beakers in the UK but shipping will put the cost up.

Is it still intermittent or simply refusing to start now?

[92DubyaPB 10]

Intermittent but it just kind of chooses when it wants to start or not and it's never same amount of time. Could be 1 second could be 20 min, but it is becoming harder and harder to start. I'm not sure if there is an American equivalent but I do have a few salvage yards around where I live. I'll go around and see what I can find

[92DubyaPB 10]

There's no cam sensor on a 92, it's just the hall sender . As far as I know these are unavailable now . But Bosch may do one ?.

 

Thanks, I replaced my whole dizzy, cap and all, it wasn't too killer on price so I figured it wouldn't hurt

[bruny 0]

Intermittent but it just kind of chooses when it wants to start or not and it's never same amount of time. Could be 1 second could be 20 min, but it is becoming harder and harder to start. I'm not sure if there is an American equivalent but I do have a few salvage yards around where I live. I'll go around and see what I can find

 

Ecu could well be the problem, however, I am surprised its still starting intermitently. It might be something as simple as the ignition switch. Cheap fix but fiddly job. I would be tempted to replace it for peace of mind!

[92DubyaPB 10]

Ecu could well be the problem, however, I am surprised its still starting intermitently. It might be something as simple as the ignition switch. Cheap fix but fiddly job. I would be tempted to replace it for peace of mind!

 

Yea, i have one just haven't put it in yet, I'm having a hard time finding an ecu so I guess I'll try that in the meantime. My ecu number is 021906258p, it's a 1992 vr6 2.8 manual transmission, are there any other part numbers that would work?

[bruny 0]

Good question, honestly don't know. Need somebody with more knowledge than myself to clarify. UK are 2.9 but I would have thought any dizzy model would be ok. Mine is 021906958B.

With a bit of luck the new ignition switch might cure it.

[92DubyaPB 10]

Yea when I get a chance I'll pop it in and try it. I've looked around and found that there's a bunch of them I can use in mine, just the letters are different, numbers are same. Thanks for all the help I'll be sure to post results

[bruny 0]

Search online 'VW Engine Management ECUs' site suggests Sharon Vr6 2.8 AAA is the same part number. Good luck with it.

[92DubyaPB 10]

Plugged in new ignition switch and nothing, going to order ecu off ebay

[92DubyaPB 10]

Got a ecu ending in M read would work replacing P. Still didn't fix issue! Still a ******* to start and doesn't stay running long. Smell fuel but no spark/ signal. I'm going to try using electrical cleaner on big round plug and plug for ecu. Is there any other suggestions or anyone that's had this issue? And solved it?

[bruny 0]

Sorry to hear you aint sorted yet. Is the fuel pump priming on ignition, it should buzz/ prime before cranking?

There is also a control box in passenger footwell behind lower left panel, can get water ingress leading to bad contacts, just a thought whilst you are checking electrics!

Are you sure it doesn't have an after market immobiliser fitted?

Any fault codes showing up on readers?

Running out of ideas now though.

[92DubyaPB 10]

I kept searching in other places on the Internet and found where the earth strap went and reattached it, and it started up, haven't done a long test yet. Still have to put some things together. Thanks for all the help though

[bruny 0]

Fingers crossed thats sorted it mate. You will also have the comfort of knowing you now have spare dizzy, ecu, switches etc. if they ever go again.