Supercharged Diesel?

[Henny 0]

Well, lets hear your thoughts on this probably stupid, drunken idea I dreamed up the other day... :roll: :oops: :twisted:

 

Get hold of a standard (none PD) TDI engine. Throw away the turbo and slam on a G60 charger instead... (or possibly even an Eton or lyshom! )

 

Fully balance it, lighten the flywheel and uprate the pump and injectors then add in a custom map... 8)

 

Advantages:

 

Cheap and easy to do (if you happen to have a spare G60 charger kicking around )

Normal MKII/MKIII TDI engines can be picked up for next to nothing...

BAGS of low down torque

Ability to run a stupidly small pulley (by petrol standards) due to the lower redline of the diesel engine

Less heat generated than from a Turbo so should run cooler

Good fuel economy (gotta be better than a petrol anyway! )

Completely individual 'cos I'd lay good money on no-one having done this before...

 

Dis-advantages:

 

Erm, this is where I need your help... :lol:

 

Is this just a stupid idea, or could it actually create something a little different and quite effective?

 

Any ideas, comments or insults (keep 'em on topic though please! :wink: :lol: ) welcome... 8)

[Jim 2]

G60 TDI sounds quite interesting too - I realllllllly like the sound of this, but obviously as I have no mechanical knowledge can't see what barriers there might be other than having to fabricate mounts, mount points, possible relocation of current parts etc.. not to mention getting a custom chip for it!

[biggerbigneil 0]

I don't see why it wouldn't work?

Just a worry if no other manufacturer has tried it there must be a reason.

I realise I haven't helped this topic what so ever.....

[Henny 0]

jimsG60, The block is essentially the same as the PG block the G60 uses anyway, so I should be able to use all the standard G60 mounts, alternator (uprated of course!) and engine mounts... (I think I can anyway... anyone know any different?!?)

 

biggerbigneil, I'm interested in all views, so anyone else saying they can't see why it won't work is useful to me... 8) I do know that VAG played with the idea of a 1.6 G60 diesel but found that the turbo was more reliable/cheaper to manufacture so they dumped the idea... :| (I've put this exact same thread up on Dubforce too HERE )

[Blue_Joe 0]

Henny - If you're interested I have a Brand New G60 90 Amp alternator up for sale at the moment (I've not sold it yet as I keep forgetting to put it in parts for sale!!) That should be big enough for the job

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I can see a G60 Diesel being on the front cover of PVW :D

 

It would even look like a normal G60 under the boneet...ish!

 

Modern TDis are quite sophisticated and deliver peak torque at around 1800rpm. I'm not sure if the G60 is capable of providing as good a drivability as that. G60s from my experience don't do much below 3000rpm in standard form, so yeah, you'd need quite a small pulley and a really quick spool up.

 

I reckon a normal PD engine would be a lot better and more tunable, but I do really like the sound of a G60 diesel though, LOL!

[Jim 2]

I think it'd still suffer low down the rev range unless you went with a ridiculously small pulley.. but once on the move I can't help but think it'd be pretty brutal!

[chrishill 0]

No mechanical background here either but I did have a thought... TD's boost at low revs, but (IME) come off boost pretty quickly meaning you have a fairly narrow power band. Is that done intentionally because of the characteristics of a diesel engine? in other words are you going to run into problems running pretty much constant boost from a charger?

 

as i said, no mech background so I could just be talking out my rear...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah the thing is, a tiny pulley would ensure good spool up but you'd need a dump valve to dump the excess at the relevant rpm.

 

Diesels get round that with variable vane turbos and have overboost protection measures.

 

Diesels just can't rev Chris, the CR is high, the stroke long and the pistons are heavy. They do most of their work really low down where the high CR is most effective. Huge diesel boat engines barely go over 1200rpm flatout but the torque is immense!

[Neil VR6 0]

Maybe VW were a bit scared off the ideas of super chargers after they realised they hadn't accounted for supercharger maintenance when they made the G60 and G40. The G Laders were very labour intensive and expensive to produce weren't they? Maybe the access to and expertise around tubos made them the more cost effective answer. As biggerbigneil said there must be a reason that we aren't all driving around in sc diesels though.

[Guest]

I must be a bigger anorak than I yjought but Mazda built a 2litre diesel that was fittted with a supercharger, it was back in early 90's and wasn't a great success - it was available in the UK

[biggrim 0]

just done a quick search for "supercharged diesel" on google and it all appears to be BIG engines that are supercharged. Reeeeaaaalllllyyyyy BIG engines! Sounds like a crazy idea to me but not in a bad way if you know what I mean. Boost return kit on the diesel then?

[Geo 0]

Is there space for the charger or will the injector pump get in the way? Apart from that I reckon it sounds like a good plan to me.

[Geo 0]

here's a pic of the 1.9 TD engine (indirect injection) the early TDIs look pretty similar.

 

[chrishill 0]

henny did say he had some special plans for J-DUB, looks like we could be seeing some superb engineering in the near future!

[Red=Fast 0]

Wow, very interesting. I'm quite curious to see how this would work out.

 

I think that you would have to run a SUPER small pulley because it would need to boost at lower RPMs. That seems like it would be the only issue to me...

[Henny 0]

Geo, that's not a PD engine though is it? AFAIK the pump isn't in the same place on the PD engines and they're fly by wire throttle so I should be able to shift it around a bit to make it fit in the enginebay without getting in the way of the supercharger... ;) 8)

 

chrishill, this is just a plan at the moment... I have no idea if it will come to fruition or not. :? I was gonna keep it quiet and just go for it, but I've had to rethink my finances a bit more than I'd like recently so I decided to ask you lot for opinions and any experience before committing to splashing out this kinda cash... 8)

 

Red=Fast, yeah, I'd work it out using the top RPM that the charger should be subjected to and then work out the ratio for how big (small! ;) ) the pulley should be to make sure that I can't over-rev the charger...

 

At the end of the day, if it doesn't work, I may just be able to plonk the turbo back on and have a PD TDI engine with a little more work... ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

just done a quick search for "supercharged diesel" on google and it all appears to be BIG engines that are supercharged. Reeeeaaaalllllyyyyy BIG engines! Sounds like a crazy idea to me but not in a bad way if you know what I mean. Boost return kit on the diesel then?

 

The biggest and most powerful diesel engine in the world (fitted to the biggest container ship in the world!) uses 3 gigantic turbos rated at 3bar each.

 

Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm

Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm

 

And here it be!

 

http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/

[Geo 0]

Geo, that's not a PD engine though is it? AFAIK the pump isn't in the same place on the PD engines and they're fly by wire throttle so I should be able to shift it around a bit to make it fit in the enginebay without getting in the way of the supercharger... ;) 8)

 

Yeah the pump is in a different place on the PD's afaik. Not sure exactly the kind of setup they have though.

 

But I thought you said you weren't going to use a PD engine? A non-PD engine out of a mk3/early mk4 golf would look pretty similar to my one except with fly by wire so no throttle cable.

[Henny 0]

Geo, yeah, sorry, I did didn't I... :oops: That's the problem with this plan, it's not really got much of a plan to it yet... :roll: :lol:

[Geo 0]

Geo, yeah, sorry, I did didn't I... :oops: That's the problem with this plan, it's not really got much of a plan to it yet... :roll: :lol:

 

lol. I know what you mean! I was just thinking it might be a bit short of space for all the stuff to fit in (injector pump, G-lader, alternator, water pump and pas pump) as the normal G60 is pretty cramped at the front of the engine anyway.

[Henny 0]

don't forget the air-con pump! ;) :lol:

[mk1-corrado 0]

i'll try and have alittle look into this, sounds a really good idea, as you wouldn't get the normal lag of a turbo'd diesel. would sound pretty loud i imagine. diesels are usually a bit noisy. lol

[Henny 0]

mk1-corrado, you've not heard her already! :lol: With her toothed pulley and custom exhaust, she wasn't exactly the quietest car in the world last time around... It's quite weird in my Grey corrado 'cos it's well quiet inside it 'cos of all the Dynamat and the fact that it's just generally a quieter engine... but that'll change soon when I swap the engines over! :twisted: :lol:

[samm_cvr6 0]

I think Diesels are better off with turbos. Because diesels don't rev high, the Supercharger would add to this problem and a remapped PD will come on boost at 1700rpm anyway. And PD engines are so much better than the old non PD 8vs. So, maybe realistically, get a nice 16vPD that is much smoother, refined and rev happy than the old 8vPD's. Just a thought, great idea tho.