Supersprint or Milltek ??

[Shaggy 0]

Which is the overall better system in terms of quality, Sound, performance etc?

I have heard lately that milltek is going downhill in terms of build quality??

 

I am intending to fit the system on my Corrado G60 and wondered if there where people with previous experience with the above Systems??

 

Cheers

[W3RKD 0]

bastuck all the way. german system for a german car.... :salute:

[G60Jet 1]

Supersprint get my vote i love the sound of mine, please i got it replace under life time warrenty

[Slimbo 0]

Supersprint everytime.

[Neil VR6 0]

Try search, this arguement will run and run!

[G60Dan 0]

I have no complaints about my Milltek. But if Darren had the bastuck exhausts when I was looking to buy, I'd of probably given one of them a go.

[Rpmayne 0]

Must admit that my Milltek has never really fitted as well as I'd hoped. Still hitting the bumper / floor / rear beam. Sounds good and looks good, just not sure about the fitment. Could be it needs adjusting again or has been made badly so I'm stuck with it...

[dinkus 10]

Milltek vs Magnex is a more fair comparison (price wise).

 

Supersprint is quite considerably more, but also a better system.

[beavis 0]

As Darren says.. Bastuck, comparable price to the more expensive Supersprint systems. Fits correctly, unlike Budget systems and has a distinctive note that does not wake the neighbourhood. Simply the finest system that money can buy... Other than the Gucci handmade system on a Rallye over on the dubforce forum.

 

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Milltek vs Magnex is a more fair comparison (price wise).

 

Supersprint is quite considerably more, but also a better system.

 

Supersprint v Milltek.... it's a no brainer. SuperSprint are FAR superior to Milltek and that is why, Dinkus, they are more expensive but not considerably more.

 

When I took my £280 milltek system up to stealth for fitting, he told me I could have (and should have in hindsight) a SuperSprint for £340....only £60 difference in money, but about £500 worth of difference in design and quality.

Vince even took one look at the Swilltek and said, "that ain't gonna fit" and he was right.

 

SuperSprints go straight on first time, every time. No clonks and they're mega quiet.

 

Worth every penny.

[Rpmayne 0]

Anyone want a used VR6 Milltek system then going cheap, one careful owner? :wink: Seriously though, at the time loads of people were saying the Millteks were very good, wish I had looked around for more options now. Does change car to car, I had a Scorpion on a mk2 golf with no knocking at all, yet the Corrado version is supposed to be an interference fit. Bought one second hand but never fitted for that reason.

[dinkus 10]

Yeah, sorry Kev. I should have articulated more.

 

Milltek and Magnex are the usual 2 people argue about because they're virtually the same price.

 

SuperSprint is the next class up and costs a fair bit more. However if money's not an issue, as you say, it's a no-brainer to have the SuperSprint. From what I've seen I'd say all stainless exhausts are louder than VAG, but it's just a case of how much. Certainly the Scorpion will be loud, cos it's a chav favourite :lol:

 

Having said all that, the Bastuck does look rather tasty...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah agreed, Milltek v Magnex would be a better comparison as they are the same price near as dammit and made of the same material.

 

And it's worth mentioning that SuperSprints are not full stainless, they are a hybrid, featuring stainless pipework and aluminiumised mild steel silencers. The VAG Liestritz system employs the same construction method and materials and it's because of the mild steel boxes that gives the quiet performance. SS do do a full stainless though if required, or stainless back boxes. I'd stick with the standard hybrid personally.

 

It's also worth noting that a full VAG VR6 system can be had for about £200. £155 for the rear two boxes from GSF (genuine) and about £50 for the front box fom VAG (GSF don't sell that one). Would be a good time to do the rear axle bushes as the axle has to come down to fit the one peice rear section. Don't cut and shut it, do it properly is Vince's advice.

 

The Standard VR system has been found to be of extremely high flow aswell, so much so a Milltek saw absolutely no power increase when fitted to mine.

[dinkus 10]

Ahh ok, that would explain why the SuperSprint is quieter. The Milltek you had for a bit seemed a bit noisy TBH and for no noticable power gain.

 

Even then, if you aren't upping the induction (i.e. some kind of charger) then there's very little gain, if any to be had from an aftermarket exhaust. The VAG system is more than capable for the engine in standard tune.

 

But then you do get a nicer tailpipe on the stainless systems...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I prefer the unassuming standard pipe to be honest!

[Neil VR6 0]

Even if you get a larger bore "sports" exhaust, unless you get a decat, downpipe and port your manifold you're not going to realise much gain. The minute you upgrade from the CAT back these 3 parts become the weak link. Once the whole of the exhaust system from the engine back is replaced, then you'll see noticable gains. I would imagine the gains would be greater on a G60 if you've had it chipped and pulley'd and the sc is blowing that bit harder.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Aye, you get more of an appreciable difference with forced induction than you would NA....although with an expertly designed tubular manifold, you can also see some real world improvements with NA too, especially on the 16V and VR6. The cat doesn't make much difference with NA, they're not as restrictive as some people would have you believe.

[Neil VR6 0]

Yup, na is all about pressure waves and multiples of certain lengths and stuff I have nooo idea about! This is quite a good article though relating to Saxo exhaust tuning but the same applies to any na car:

 

Exhaust Manifolds

 

Regarding manifolds many things are said about the merits of 4-2-1 as compared to 4-1 as to the performance properties each has.

The basic facts are that a 4-2-1 will give more low down power at the expense of a bit of top end and the 4-1 is the opposite, slightly less bottom end but more top. The problem for someone choosing which manifold to buy are not as simple as this, as the above comments are based on the manifold being built to set physics principals, that do not change, no matter who has built it.

The principals are too complex to go into fully, so below are the basics.

When you burn the fuel and it escapes from the exhaust valve is has a pressure wave, this wave has energy and it can be harnessed to suck more gas than normal from the cylinder, this is the reason for performance manifolds. These waves have a natural harmonics and pulses and you have to get these right to make them do their job. To their job the exhaust pipe diameter has to be correct and more importantly the length of the pipes between joints.

To be correct, the length of the exhaust manifold before the gasses from the 4 cylinders come together should be about 32 to 34 inches from the head flange, assuming it is a 4-1 manifold. If it is a 4-2-1 manifold the first 2 pipes should join at between 16 to 17 inches, this is called the primary length, the next 2, the secondary pipes are the same length. The distance to the first silencer or Cat, should be the same distance away from the place the pipes all join.

So why are these distances so critical? The pulses of gas move down the pipe until there is a junction and then reverberate back up to the back of the valve, if these lengths are correct the wave pattern exerts a suction behind the valve head. If these lengths are wrong the pressure wave gets distorted and so looses it’s suction power and in some cases it can actually be worse than the standard manifold, as the waves clash against each other ruling out any suction and even providing positive pressure to hold the gas in the cylinder.

I know many will say, how is this possible, the standard manifold is not anything like the lengths you have quoted. Yes, quite true, here comes a bit of the technical stuff again. The harmonics of the gas and pipe lengths are to do with multiples and divisions of these lengths stated. Lets take 32 inches as the correct length. If you made a manifold that the 4 pipes joined at 64 inches, no problem, if you made one that they joined at 16 or 8 no problem. If the first silencer was 8 or 16 or 32 or 64 inches from where the 4 pipes join together, no problem. Therefore the standard exhaust manifold will have been designed by the manufacturers to coincide with one of these lengths, even though it does look crap.

OK, so where is the problem. The problem is that a lot of exhaust manifold manufacturers do not follow these rules often due to space limitations under the bonnet or for ease of manufacture due to complicated bends and junctions, this being particularly applicable to 4-2-1 units.

So yes on paper a 4-2-1 should give you more bottom end power but if it is not built to the correct lengths it will not and may even be worse than the standard one. A particular car that was built that no one could really improve on the standard manifold was the 205 MI16. It was made of course cast iron but was worked perfectly.

One reason I am mentioning all this is that some people were contacting us saying a manifold was available for the Saxo that was stainless steel and cheaper than our mild steel one. I rang the company up to ask details and, yes they could supply it cheaper but only if I bought 10 at one time, so the price problem disappeared. I then went on to ask technical specification as it was a 4-2-1, when given the dimensions of the lengths of pipes, I had to laugh, there was no way this manifold could work.

 

 

 

Exhaust Systems

 

The same problems regarding pipe sizes and lengths apply to exhaust systems, this is why all manufacturers (until Citroen started with VTR) have the Cat or before Cat’s came into being, had an expansion box or silencer just about 3 feet away from the manifold (or a multiple distance of same). So taking off your first silencer and putting in a straight pipe is unlikely to do anything for performance, unless you happen to be lucky that the rear silencer position just so happens to be the correct length away. This is most unlikely as rear silencers are fitted anywhere that room allows. So what about taking off the cat from under the car, the car goes a lot better without it, yes, it does but this is due to getting rid of the restrictions of the Cat, nothing to do with pipe lengths and gas harmonics. So whilst taking off the cat is good it is not as good as taking it off and replacing it with an expansion box in the same place. This is why our BTB exhaust system is so good, not only is it massive bore all the way down to prevent back pressure but it also has an expansion box in place of the Cat. I know this system is expensive in comparison to many others but none has such a big bore, and none have an expansion box, plus you have to buy a De-cat pipe to make fair comparison to price.