Complete bottom end re build

[smarkham 0]

Just had a quote for a bottom end re build £2200+vat :shock: :shock: Is this about the going rate or can it be done for a bit less ?

[Henny 0]

which engine? If that's a 4 cylinder version they're taking the p1ss... if it's a 6 cylinder, that's still expensive...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Stealth's price for the VR block rebuild is £2300 fitted, but I don't know if that includes VAT or not.

 

Yeah it's expensive but when Graham's building it, I don't mind paying the extra for quality workmanship.

 

Of course you can do it cheaper, providing you can find a machine shop with a tilting milling bed, and that's gonna be about £20-£30 a cylinder to bore and hone. And the 6 x Mahle piston and ring sets for the 2897cc rebore ain't cheap and nor is the labour involved in fitting an engine if you're not profficient in this area.

 

As with everything in life, you can afford it and pay it, or you can afford it and prefer to do it yourself, or you can't afford it and NEED to do it yourself...... so long as the job gets done, it's a good un!

[smarkham 0]

Yeah it is a vr6 whats it worth knowing that the bttom end needs doing ? Its still running fine but smokes some times I have not long spent 2k having the top end rew built and new oil pump. Its a 94 with 140k factory fit electric recaros, tt comps,miltek stainless, carbon bmc, and far too much other stuff to list

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Is yours Aqua blue? I'm sure I met a guy at Stealth a year and a bit ago with a Corrado fitting that exact description? He took me out in it as I wanted to feel what 17s did to the Corrado's ride....was it you?!

 

Anyway, mine's 120K old and also spent money on the head and chains not long ago. I suspected mine was worn too and gave the car to Stealth for a week to investigate and he said it's putting out 200bhp, so it can't be that bad. Mine smokes on the odd occasion on the overun too.

 

I'd say get it rollered and find out what it's doing before forking out all that dosh.

 

Bottom end is basically a rebore, new pistons and rings, new bearings, new oil pump and new conrods if any look ropey.

[dr_mat 0]

How much oil's it using?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That's not necessarily an indication of bore wear. Worn oil control rings can cause excess consumption but the engine can still show good compressions and power..... number 1 is just starting to go on mine with the odd puff now and then, but it's still generating 200 ponies.... so I'll put the block build on hold for now.

[dr_mat 0]

I never see any smoking from mine, but I think I'd need to rig up a camera behind the car. I'm usually too busy looking forward .. :)

Plus I'm only using 1 litre of oil in around 8k miles, so maybe I don't see any cos there isn't any..

[Henny 0]

right, seeing as this is a VR, I'll back out and leave you in the more-than-capable hands of Kev, smarkham 'cos I know bugger all about costs on VR6s... :oops:

[smarkham 0]

Wasnt me mate it moonlight blue pearl. Its still has good compression on all 6 but it has low oil pressure hence replacing the oil pump. It doesnt use much oil at all and only smokes from 4.5k ish so it points to main bearings. I have just had to pay for a funeral so i have no cash to get it dont and no way of getting the sort of cash i will need for a good couple of years. Its probably got another 50k in it yet but i have already spent 9.5k on it. Its still putting out 200 ish on the rollers. So whats it worth in its current state ?

[dr_mat 0]

No, you lost me, how do the main bearings make it smoke?

[smarkham 0]

I was told it will cause the oil pressure to drop and push the oil past the rings due to the bottom end having too much pressure

[dr_mat 0]

I can see how it would produce lower oil pressure slightly, but can't see how that would push oil past the rings! The crank case pressure should be equalised into the inlet manifold via the crankcase breather valve (which should really be called a filter), so low oil pressure or not, that shouldn't make any difference, imho!

Perhaps there's something I'm missing?

[smarkham 0]

Ok in this cas what else can i check before i let it go for silly money ?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Is it definitely oil smoke mate because when VRs come on the cam at 4K, you can sometimes get a lot of grey/black over fueling smoke.....just a thought.

 

If it's defo rich, thick blue smoke, then yeah it's oil.....and chucking it out at those rpms does indeed indicate a block related issue.

 

Shame it's the crank bearings because if it was the big end bearings, you can change them by just dropping the sump. Can't say I've heard of worn crank bearings causing excess oil as the journals and big ends are fed by the pump, and not the oil flick, dunno.... have you got a loud metallic thumping/rumbling at idle?

[smarkham 0]

No idles fine defo oil smoke though

[h100vw 0]

How often do you run it to 4500 plus???

 

If you don't do it very often you are maybe just clearing the build up of sh1t out of the exhaust. Even if you stick 2 litres of oil in between services that's still not massive consumption IMO.

 

I doubt the mains have gone as you would know all about it. If the Big ends were worn again you'd hear it and if oil pressure was significantly down for any reason the dash would have told you, if you couldn't hear the tappets complain.

 

Gavin

[RW1 0]

Hi,

 

Basics...........

 

Low oil pressure? Numerically what is it and at what engine speeds are the readings.

 

What's the grade of oil has it currently been filled with? 0w40 or 15w40?

 

Not making sense as dr_mat & Kevhaywire are finding.

[smarkham 0]

the tappets do complain thats how i fouund the oil pressure was low its putting out just under 1 bar on idle and 3 on the power this was all checked by stealth and it has the oil in it that they put in so it shyould be correct. Doesnt matter how much you run it at 4.5k could be all day it will still smoke

[RW1 0]

Oil Grade?

[smarkham 0]

10-40 semi

[RW1 0]

OK, that is slightly low for the oil grade and would give you tappet noise on the "over-hot" / rad fan running in standing traffic.

 

But I think there are two problems as Kev is thinking. Bearings & a slightly worn engine rings/bore (given the 140K). The oil pressure is the more the crank area to investigate.

 

I have not long spent 2k having the top end rew built and new oil pump.

Whoever advised you to do only the top end on a 140k engine needs their bumps feeling. At this mileage, the bottom should have been sorted at the same time. As above, the bottom end bearings could on the way out due to the increased stress since the top end overhaul. Most likely the big ends. So as Kev has saked, is it rumbling at idle?

[smarkham 0]

Nope runs sweet as a nut once its above idle the tappets stop complaining and its still goes really well it just smokes when it feels like it.

[Stan 24v 0]

As you may or may not have been aware, Ive had some engine issues lately too. Ive been putting the feelers out for new engines.

 

I was offered a 41000 miler for £705 inc VAT and Delivery, but they sold it before I got chance to say yes!!

 

partsgateway

 

Also, Ive just received this email:

 

Thanks for your enquiry.

 

We can supply a fully re-built exchange engine for you to arrange fitting at £1295.00 + vat.

 

From our experience in engine building and fitting, we have found it advantageous to have the replacement unit alongside the old unit when fitting. As we sell our engines on an "exchange" basis, we shall require a deposit pending the return of your old unit in a serviceable condition.

 

Cost of carriage to deliver the engine to you and to collect the old unit £90.00 + vat.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Or, if your engine is damaged , we can supply a top quality used engine (prices vary according to mileage, year, and condition).

Please call for details.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Recovery & Fitting Service Available

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If you would prefer to speak directly to one of our sales advisors, please call us on 0208 744 2525 quoting ref: S0807/064

 

For details of our Terms & Conditions + guarantees, please go to our web site http://www.enginesdirect.com where you may download copies.

 

Engines Direct

 

Bit cheaper than the price you were quoted. :shock:

[dr_mat 0]

Surely 10w40 is the same thickness as factory-spec 15w40 when it's at 100 degrees while sitting in traffic?

Therefore clattery tappets either means bad tappets, bad oil pump or oil blockages..?