The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[bananawhip 0]

Here's a question then...

 

I like the idea of an easy stage 1 install, standard injectors, fuel pump, no intercooler etc Maybe even get away without a map depending how it runs.

 

Problem is I've already got 236bhp NA, would that mean I'd jump straight to closer to 300bhp and struggle with fuelling etc, I'd love to easily bolt on a charger for a bit of extra poke but I get the impression I've gone past the point of no return with the NA stage I've tuned to already..is this right?

[Philmo 0]

Here's a question then...

 

I like the idea of an easy stage 1 install, standard injectors, fuel pump, no intercooler etc Maybe even get away without a map depending how it runs.

 

Problem is I've already got 236bhp NA, would that mean I'd jump straight to closer to 300bhp and struggle with fuelling etc, I'd love to easily bolt on a charger for a bit of extra poke but I get the impression I've gone past the point of no return with the NA stage I've tuned to already..is this right?

 

Well I'm running 263's and Schrick [probably worth 230bhp N/A?] + st1 [6psi] Vortech V9 charger and, as you say, get just short of 300. The tired standard fuel pump was replaced by an uprated one which enabled the std injectors to be retained. Vince reckons there's about 20 bhp left in the std injectors. At this ouput though the inlet and the SC casing get too hot to lean on even at this time of year and I'll be putting an insulating gasket on the lower inlet mani during the wet season. The TB hot water feed will be short circuited. May also up the Aquamist output.

[bananawhip 0]

Well I'm running 263's and Schrick [probably worth 230bhp N/A?] + st1 [6psi] Vortech V9 charger and, as you say, get just short of 300. The tired standard fuel pump was replaced by an uprated one which enabled the std injectors to be retained. Vince reckons there's about 20 bhp left in the std injectors. At this ouput though the inlet and the SC casing get too hot to lean on even at this time of year and I'll be putting an insulating gasket on the lower inlet mani during the wet season. The TB hot water feed will be short circuited. May also up the Aquamist output.

 

Thanks for the reply that's very reassuring, I've already bypassed my TB, fitted a 13 row mocal with an extended pipe to keep my OEM oil/water exchange, used DEI insulating tape on the underneath of my inlet manifold, fitted a newsouth inlet gasket, samco's and plastic rocker cover, by the sounds of it then I could afford to squeeze out another 50bhp without things getting overly hot, don't have Aquamist though and if I'm honest I don't really know what it is...I'm a complete newbie when it comes to forced induction :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Maybe even get away without a map depending how it runs.

 

No chance :lol: You'll need a remap to reduce ignition timing on boost unfortunately.

 

Go stage 1 turbo 8)

[bananawhip 0]

No chance You'll need a remap to reduce ignition timing on boost unfortunately.

 

Go stage 1 turbo

 

Thought that bit was a bit wishful

 

As I say though I'm clueless about these things and as such Turbo's scare me, messing about with head gaskets for compression and short runner manifolds, intercoolers etc etc

 

Supercharging seems like something I could do in an afternoon, in the sun, ipod playing, cold beer in hand...aaahh bliss :)

[big ben 10]

you will want more power though :lol:

 

you have a decent N/A bhp but you now want a supercharger, then soon you will spend loads of money trying to squeeze a few more bhp out of it again, and still you will want more power....

 

if you have the money go turbo, im running a slow VRT and dont feel the need to go faster, i know maybe next year i will be going for more boost, but only beacause i can 8)

 

i havent come up against something that is faster than mine, so there isnt a need to go faster and faster

[Philmo 0]

....... don't have Aquamist though and if I'm honest I don't really know what it is...I'm a complete newbie when it comes to forced induction :)

 

It's water injection, a fine spray just upstream of the TB. Cools the airflow and lowers combustion chamber temps. I recall earlier in this thread Kev Haywire introduced a newer, better product from Schimmel which offers better watermist flow control than the Aquamist which is a bit pricier too.

[bananawhip 0]

you will want more power though

 

you have a decent N/A bhp but you now want a supercharger, then soon you will spend loads of money trying to squeeze a few more bhp out of it again, and still you will want more power....

 

You are right I probably will be hankering for more before long, it just seems that every new car these days has 250bhp so the magic number of 300 really appeals to me, I'd be lying though if I said it would stop there :)

 

Maybe Turbo needs more consideration on my part..

 

Thanks PHILMO for the Aquamist explanation, makes perfect sense really, maybe all this F/I malarky isn't as scary as first thought.

[The_Dude 0]

....... don't have Aquamist though and if I'm honest I don't really know what it is...I'm a complete newbie when it comes to forced induction :)

 

It's water injection, a fine spray just upstream of the TB. Cools the airflow and lowers combustion chamber temps. I recall earlier in this thread Kev Haywire introduced a newer, better product from Schimmel which offers better watermist flow control than the Aquamist which is a bit pricier too.

 

I have the Schimmel water kit and its a great piece of kit. Its fully adjustable. You can choose the strength of the injection from 1-10, and it can be triggered by boost or throttle voltage, again, fully adjustable. The pump is huge and savage and injects a hell of a lot of water!

 

I personally would go turbot if I had the chance again, yeah its a bit more work, but the rewards are better in the long run. Back then, like you, I wanted something that easily bolted on, around 290ish bhp and had been done lots of times before. I suppose I could sell the charger now and start again, but I don't really have the cash these days. I'm struggling to even run the rado atm, no payrise and buying a house is taking its toll on monthly outgoings. I'd rather give up smoking than sell the car tho, and I think I might have to!!!

[bananawhip 0]

I personally would go turbot if I had the chance again, yeah its a bit more work, but the rewards are better in the long run. Back then, like you, I wanted something that easily bolted on, around 290ish bhp and had been done lots of times before. I suppose I could sell the charger now and start again, but I don't really have the cash these days. I'm struggling to even run the rado atm, no payrise and buying a house is taking its toll on monthly outgoings. I'd rather give up smoking than sell the car tho, and I think I might have to!!!

 

Give up smoking and sell the Supercharger to me, fit a turbo instead then drive everywhere like your pants are on fire, that'll take your mind off the stress of buying a new house :)

[dom911 0]

z-engineering super chargers any good?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The second generation ones with the oil supply are, but the early ones with dry running ceramic bearings aren't so good. The main trouble with the Zeds is getting spares. Vortech and Rotrex are better in that respect.

[Philmo 0]

And if you fancy a Vortech V9 then go for one which has an uprated gearbox, ie a recent stage one setup or if it's an older stage 2 it could have the stronger box.

If I were starting again I'd probably go Rotrex, although it's a more complex arrangement with its own oil cooling circuit.

[Rambo 0]

My first post in this section :)

Quick question guys, I have a VR6 turbo, when I put my foot on the gas (enough to cause the bov to open) I get a lot of smoke comming out of the exhaust and the engine bay, not sure why, I think its probably because my turbo has gone :( .

 

Initially the heat from the turbo melted my oil reservice tank and the brake servo pipe, so for the time being I brought an extra bonnet, cut a massive hole in it to prevent things from melting, its working till now. And it also lets me know the conidtion of the engine. Right now I am getting oil from the engine comming out and splashing onto my windscreen :shock:

And there is a lot of oil on my intake manifold. Im using the standard VR6 manifold. Initially i thought it was from the turbo oil return pushing the oil onto the dip stick, forcing it up and then forcing the oil out of the dip stick nozzle. I fixed that with a simple spring, but when I put my foot down I still get oil splashing onto my windscreen, its not a lot, and only happens when the turbo kicks in, i.e. I put my foot on the gas hard.

Any ideas what it could be? as i have no idea, the engine sounds healthy (I think).

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My first post in this section :)

Quick question guys, I have a VR6 turbo, when I put my foot on the gas (enough to cause the bov to open) I get a lot of smoke comming out of the exhaust and the engine bay, not sure why, I think its probably because my turbo has gone :( .

 

Welcome to the Superbocharged arena :D

 

The BOV should be closed when you put your foot down, and open when you back off the gas. I think you mean the wastegate? Does your turbo have an external wastegate, or an internal one? If external, did you plumb it's output back into the main exhaust, or leave it open to atmosphere, aka "Screamer"?

 

Initially the heat from the turbo melted my oil reservice tank and the brake servo pipe, so for the time being I brought an extra bonnet, cut a massive hole in it to prevent things from melting, its working till now. And it also lets me know the conidtion of the engine. Right now I am getting oil from the engine comming out and splashing onto my windscreen :shock:

And there is a lot of oil on my intake manifold. Im using the standard VR6 manifold. Initially i thought it was from the turbo oil return pushing the oil onto the dip stick, forcing it up and then forcing the oil out of the dip stick nozzle. I fixed that with a simple spring, but when I put my foot down I still get oil splashing onto my windscreen, its not a lot, and only happens when the turbo kicks in, i.e. I put my foot on the gas hard.

Any ideas what it could be? as i have no idea, the engine sounds healthy (I think).

 

How close is your turbo to the bulkhead to melt the servo hose? Have you got any kind of heat shielding around the turbo? Maybe you should consider a turbo jacket if you're melting things mate. Or tilt the bonnet up at the back by adjusting the hinges. Got any pics of your setup?

 

Do you have rocker cover breather open to atmosphere? Could the oil be coming from that? If it is, I'd say you've broken a ring land on one or more pistons. Is it a stock engine with spacer? What boost pressure are you running?

 

It's unusual for the turbo oil return to force oil out of the dipstick. What turbo is it? If it's a garrett roller bearing, did you fit an oil restrictor? If not, you will get loads of smoke as the bearings in those aren't designed for high pressure oil feeds.

 

We need a bit more info on your setup and some pics if possible.

[The_Dude 0]

If I go for a 10psi pulley, do I need to uprate the tensioner, or do I just need the smaller pulley? (V9-F).

I only ask as Vortech don't seem to make the 7 rib ones for VWs any more, so I'd have to get one custom built.

[Rambo 0]

Im running a garrett t3 turbo, with only an oil input. So I was just looking at the engine bay. The engine only smokes when the turbo is running. So basically if i rev the engine really slowly upto 3-4k rpm there is no smoke, but when the turbo starts to spool smoke starts comming, the faster the turbo the greater the smoke.

When i release my foot from the gas suddenly, the bov opens and there is even more smoke, not sure how that works, or if it is even possible.

 

The leak, the oil is leaking from the oil cap. So basically at high rpm, 4k again, the oil starts splashing out from the sides of the oil cap. I HOPE there is something wrong with the cap, I will change the cap tonight, but what else could it be, because surely the oil pressure shouldnt be that high in the rocker cover.

 

I brought the engine off my brother, he brought it from someone on this site i believe. It has a 9:1 compression ratio. I have not pushed the engine past 4.5K Rpm ever, and only driven it with the turbo, so not sure how it should respond or sound.

[Rambo 0]

Sorry for flooding this section guys, I been having nightmares of my vr6 going bust.

 

Kev, you mentioned open breather on the rocker cover, where is that? I dont know where to check for that, I think there are two oil leaks, one from the oil cap, and another from the back of the rocker cover, nearest the exhaust manifold, a very slight leak, which probably gets more as the engine rpm increases as it only smokes at high rpm.

 

What else should i check, I will put some pics up of my engine bay later, im shocked how oil can be jumping out of the oil cap on the rocker cover.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Don't worry about it, that's what this thread is here for :D

 

The rocker cover breather is the bit circled in red in the attached pic.

 

On the standard engine, the fumes from here (crank case ventilation) would get fed into the intake piping and burned off, but we like to vent that to atmosphere on turbo conversions as the oily fumes condense on the turbo blades and intercooler passages, making a right old mess.

 

I take it your smoke is blue as in burnt oil?

 

I mentioned busted ring lands earlier because that would over pressurise the crank case and throw oil out every where like you describe, and makes sense if it only does it on boost. It would need to be very severe over pressurising to blast oil past the oil cap seal :shock: I would defo replace the oil cap ASAP with a brand new one. Also make sure the bit circled is not blocked. That is VERY important!

 

If not engine related, it could be excessive oil leaking past the turbo seals and into the exhaust.

 

Have you checked the spark plugs? One or more plug tips will be oiled up badly if it's burning oil internally.

[junkie 0]

Im running a garrett t3 turbo, with only an oil input. .

Not been an expert here but surely you need a return from the turbo back to the sump or am i been stupid or reading it wrong?

[Rambo 0]

Im running a garrett t3 turbo, with only an oil input. .

Not been an expert here but surely you need a return from the turbo back to the sump or am i been stupid or reading it wrong?

 

Sorry for the confusion, i ment it only had an oil input, as in no water, becasue some turbos have water and oil intake. But yeah the turbo has an oil return going back into the sump.

 

Anyway, so Kev, I took the oil breather pipe off, and took the car for a spin, and there was no oil jumping out of the oil refil cap. Is this normal? If so, I think it has fixed the problem of oil squirting out of the oil refiller cap, I am still using the old cap aswell :D which can only be good news.

Smoke from the exhaust, well I couldnt tell as it was dark, but I will check again. But before the smoke was definetly blue.

Cheers guys, I will be back with more info.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It sounds like the crank case gases weren't escaping. What's at the other end of the breather pipe? It must be blocked if removing it stops the crank case getting over pressurised?

 

Could be a cheap and easy fix for you!

[matty.vrt 0]

when i had the same problem of the oil breather being blocked it just made the car cut out due to the crank case pressure,the seal on the oil cap must have perished so its blown out of there instead of stalling.

[max_imus 0]

Hi,

 

im supercharging my 1995 vr6 and having probs with the chip

vf sent me a second chip and car starts now but doent run more than a few seconds

my ECU number is 021 986 258 cp my original chip was welded on the board

im from france, is there any vf dealer in england ? cause to get things fixed between california

and France its really not easy cause of 8hrs jet lag and customs cost each time.

thanks for your help hope ur still part of this forum

best regards

max

[VR6Joni 0]

Hi,

 

im supercharging my 1995 vr6 and having probs with the chip

vf sent me a second chip and car starts now but doent run more than a few seconds

my ECU number is 021 986 258 cp my original chip was welded on the board

im from france, is there any vf dealer in england ? cause to get things fixed between california

and France its really not easy cause of 8hrs jet lag and customs cost each time.

thanks for your help hope ur still part of this forum

best regards

max

 

If I were you I'd just take the new chip and ecu to any good tuning company, they should be able to put the new maps for the supercharger on your existing ECU, therefore eliminating software difference issues as no doubt the new chip has American software on which I think is safe to say is different from the European versions.

Also what does VAGCOM list as the software version with the new chip in? That would give you a good idea of software difference issues.