The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Has it been dynoed yet Kev?

 

Not yet, should be soon though :D

 

 

... but the projected huge gains in midrange torque will make it worth the effort imo 8)

 

Looks very interesting and a neat design; but isn't this the benefit of the standard VR manifold over a short runner in the first place, Kev? I'll be interested to see how you find it.

 

I knew you were going to say that.

 

The runners on this aren't as long as the stock runners and it has better top end flow than the stock inlet. Plus it also has the other benefits a short runner provides by getting the throttle away from the turbo and much easier, neater boost pipework.

 

So in summary, it's a 'Short runner +'.

 

Some back to back dyno tests will be conducted in the US very soon and pending the results of that, I'll be going forward with it.

[The_Dude 0]

I knew you were going to say that.

 

The runners on this aren't as long as the stock runners and it has better top end flow than the stock inlet. Plus it also has the other benefits a short runner provides by getting the throttle away from the turbo and much easier, neater boost pipework.

 

So in summary, it's a 'Short runner +'.

 

Some back to back dyno tests will be conducted in the US very soon and pending the results of that, I'll be going forward with it.

 

So its a medium runner then? :D

 

And presumably your short runner will be up for grabs? Consider me please when you come to sell it. :salute:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

So its a medium runner then? :D

 

And presumably your short runner will be up for grabs? Consider me please when you come to sell it. :salute:

 

Yeah, good description, a medium runner :D

 

LOL, sure thing bud, I'll consider you top vulture in the pecking order when it comes to selling the Schimmel intake :lol:

 

Not sure it will be suitable for you though as it's been modified to accept rather special MAP sensors etc. if you're going standalone at some point, then it would be perfect for you 8)

[Guest]

love that manifold looks well tidy

have they got any idea how much it will cost to make?

 

also i know none of you lot will care, but will this manifold have any gains for n/a vr as well

[Philmo 0]

 

................ So in summary, it's a 'Short runner +'.

 

Some back to back dyno tests will be conducted in the US very soon and pending the results of that, I'll be going forward with it.

 

So its a medium runner then? :D ...................

:salute:

 

Yeah - it's been nominated for next year's Sports Personaility of the year!!! :?

[VR6Joni 0]

love that manifold looks well tidy

have they got any idea how much it will cost to make?

 

also i know none of you lot will care, but will this manifold have any gains for n/a vr as well

 

I very much doubt it as the original manifold has much much space to play with, I'm sure VW will have chosen runner lengths/bores for maximum top end power, that's what it feels like anyway as bottom end power is pants. Look at Shricks and VSR's they don't make any more power than a standard manifold at high RPM's.

[Guest]

I very much doubt it as the original manifold has much much space to play with, I'm sure VW will have chosen runner lengths/bores for maximum top end power, that's what it feels like anyway as bottom end power is pants. Look at Shricks and VSR's they don't make any more power than a standard manifold at high RPM's.

 

yeah i guess your right just wishfull thinking

would be good tho to make a tidy lookin engine bay if you care about that sort of thing

[VR6Joni 0]

As were on the subject of manifolds. Has anyone ever tried one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/exhaust-manifold-turbo-for-VW-VR6-golf-jetta-MK3-T3-T4_W0QQitemZ270480816028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ef9e9b79c

 

The seller has quiet allot of vw turbo parts, even 24V manifolds. Anyone ever tried any of them?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The standard intake has 420mm long runners and they are balanced length like the Schrick, but you can't see it externally like the Schrick's pretty runnering. It's all done inside the plenum.

 

VW obviously found that runner length to be a reasonable compromise (as all intake manifolds are) within the particular rpm window they designed the engine to operate in, which is fine for a normally aspirated application. With forced induction, you might want to 'move' the torque curve out of the wheelspin zone (around 3500rpm usually) by altering the runner length. Because turbos and superchargers massively increase the engine's top end power potential, it's therefore natural to make the engine breath better up there, hence cams + short intakes being popular with VRTs.

 

Tuning a runner length is a right or wrong excercise, it's all about tuning the torque band to your own specific requirements. That one in the red car above was designed and made to satisfy it's designer's specific requirements, so it may not be suited to everyone, but based on what he's done so far, I can see it working well in a majority of applications.

 

Even with the Schimmel intake, which is less than ideal in some people's eyes, I still struggle for traction. Off boost it will spin the wheels just as easily as the stock intake would and between 3 - 6K on damp wintery roads, it's unusable on occasion....and that's with runners some 345mm shorter than standard.

 

In the interests of science and experimentation in the real world, I tried the Schimmel intake on mine without an S/C or Turbo. Bone stock engine with a K&N filter.

As you would expect, the top end was a lot better.

The bottom end would need a dyno to measure the difference in midrange torque because I couldn't feel any difference from my seat. In fact, the only way I could tell the manifold was fitted was because the characteristic VR6 intake noise was completely gone.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

As were on the subject of manifolds. Has anyone ever tried one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/exhaust-manifold-turbo-for-VW-VR6-golf-jetta-MK3-T3-T4_W0QQitemZ270480816028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ef9e9b79c

 

The seller has quiet allot of vw turbo parts, even 24V manifolds. Anyone ever tried any of them?

 

I like that a lot, good find!

 

The wastegate position looks good for flow and the runners look good too :salute:

[GVK 0]

Anyone used this German supplier of VR6 Turbo parts? http://www.turbo-parts.de/

 

Or on eBay http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/turbo-par ... QQ_armrsZ1

[Philmo 0]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/intake-manifold-t ... 3ef4bd83f8

 

appears to be a short [medium?] runner with equalised lengths. Presume the TB flange orientation is to suit IC cooling?

[VR6Joni 0]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/intake-manifold-turbo-for-VW-R32-V6-2-8L-or-3-2-L_W0QQitemZ270394033144QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ef4bd83f8

 

appears to be a short [medium?] runner with equalised lengths. Presume the TB flange orientation is to suit IC cooling?

 

Looks good, but I'm now going the charge cooler route for ease of routing. Also that one is for 24V. Doesn't look like they do one for 12V engines with equalised runners :(

[poll250 0]

Hey guys,

 

I'll hopefully be buying and fitting a Rotrex charger in the next month or so, just had a few questions for you knowledgable people :) Having read 45 pages of this thread, and various others concerning Rotrex's I have a fair idea of what I'm in for, but just a couple of things I need to know:

 

Does anyone who has a Storm 6 or 10psi kit fitted ( with the C30-84 charger) know the pulley size they supply for each? I've emailed them a few times and just rang them, and was told that they can't tell me the pulley size until I've bought a kit from them. Something to do with the fact that once I know the pulley size I can just go somewhere else and buy one instead.

 

I've heard from quite a few sources that even the 6psi kit alone will be good for 280bhp on a standard engine, and I'm hoping to add a decat, 6 branch and 262 cams at the same time, so thinking 6psi would give me about 300bhp. At what stage do the standard injectors give up?

 

Does anyone have an idea of what pulley size I should go for? The last thing I want is to end up producing too much boost to start with, as I know this has happened to quite a few people with these chargers.

 

Andy

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've heard from quite a few sources that even the 6psi kit alone will be good for 280bhp on a standard engine, and I'm hoping to add a decat, 6 branch and 262 cams at the same time, so thinking 6psi would give me about 300bhp. At what stage do the standard injectors give up?

 

I'd get the Bosch red tops (310cc) if you're aiming for 300hp. You will also need a drop in Walbro GSS340 pump. Or maybe the Saab Red tops (363cc) for a little more headroom.

The standard injectors and pump are close to the edge by 250hp.

 

At 6psi, a decat won't yield much, but the cams will help. I'd say aim for 280hp with that lot. 300hp from 6psi of S/C is a bit optimistic imo. Doable from a turbo though :D

[herisites 0]

Kev, I ran a standard pump with my Rotrex and same now with the R32 both running over 270bhp.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah I but I seem to remember you were getting a fair bit det at the top end with the Rotrex.

 

I wouldn't personally run over 250hp with the stock pump and injectors, but that's just me. I'd rather run a bigger flowing pump that isn't so close to the edge at the top end.

[herisites 0]

Yeah I but I seem to remember you were getting a fair bit det at the top end with the Rotrex.

 

True. I thought that was just down to non-sufficient cooling and lack of a proper map. Probs best to go for the better pump though like you say.

[KADVR6 0]

been thinking andy, and instead of fitting the cams just spend that money on injectors and a new water injection kit.

[poll250 0]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for the responses! I was thinking about a walbro or an inline pump, I just replaced mine wih a new Standard pump and sender 2 months ago though! Will have to see if anyone has one going I guess.

 

I've seen a set of cleaned Browntop injectors on vr6oc, but can't seem to find any info on there size, anyone got an idea?

 

Pullies are about 60 euro I think Rob, I was thnking 85-90mm to start with, better safe than sorry I think.

 

With regard to cooling, I've got an wanted ad on a few forums at the moment, if they don't produce anything I'll get a devilsown system off eBay, they're about 250 shipped, not bad for Consistent boost and a bit of peace of mind.

 

I'll be in the USA in March so may pick up some stuff like cams while I'm out there and save a few bob, that is if I can hold back that long though lol

[C488ADO 0]

what is the best supercharger..

 

then what is best in terms of value for money bang for buck etc

 

build quality, reliablity ,

cheers

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've seen a set of cleaned Browntop injectors on vr6oc, but can't seem to find any info on there size, anyone got an idea?

 

These are the most common high impedance 0280150xxx Bosch injectors.

 

126cc - Gold top

147cc - Gray top

200cc - Orange top (standard VR6)

200cc - Gold

200cc- Yellow/Black

252cc - Light bluish/gray top

263cc - Blue/Green

315cc - Dark Red top

440cc - Lime Green top

 

I suspect they're standard Orange tops, you need the 0280150xxx part number to be sure.

[poll250 0]

Thanks for that Kev, looking at the photo more they do look orange and not brown, no wonder google didnt provide any answers! :brickwall:

 

What sort of price should I be looking to pay for a set of 6 red tops? 100 quid sound right?

 

Would 440cc Green tops be overkill?

 

Andy

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The red top is a standard injector on Ford Mustangs mate, so they're cheap as chips from America. There's usually some sets of them floating about in this country too and £100-£150 for a s/hand set is a fair price I'd say. They're £45-£50 each, brand new, from the UK.

 

This website imports a lot of forced induction kit from the US at reasonable prices - http://www.gt3turbo.com/Merchant/home.php

 

440cc Green tops aren't overkill at all. I'm fairly certain you'll end up exploring more boost in the future - everyone with boost crumbles eventually! - and therefore the 440s will give you scope for up to 450 crank power.

 

If you go Green top, make sure you get a batch of 6 tested / matched because they have a reputation for dribbling at low pulse widths (idle and part throttle).

[C488ADO 0]

the saab guys love siemens 630cc injectors i ran them on my 2.3 turbo 371bhp they are good for well over 500 bhp...

 

 

set of 4 is about $80