The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[lilfuzzer 1]

Hi all,

 

quick question just so I am hopefully doing this right. I have a fuel regulator adapter to fit to schimmel rail, I need to blank off one of the holes. I assume that the fpr needs to be after the rail therefore if I run the fuel outside the rail to the throttle body side of a short runner then I would need to blank the hole that let the fuel straight out of the raile to force the fuel through the regulator before returning to the tank.

 

Or am I thinking along the completely the wrong lines.

 

Any help would be greatful

 

Many thanks

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My word, some movement in the FI VR6 thread! :D

 

What FPR adapter is it? If it's the Schimmel one, it's rubbish.

 

The best way to do it is have a return line, as per stock. Blocking off one end of the rail causes running problems with short runners when the engine gets very hot.

 

I've used both an external FPR and a stock one with good results. Pics of both attached.

 

The stock FRP adapter I used is "FR-MNT" on this site, which worked perfectly - http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Fuel_Systems/Fuel_Pressure_Regulars/Fuel_Pressure_Regulars.htm

 

All fittings and hoses etc I got from www.speedflow.co.uk

[lilfuzzer 1]

HI mate cheers for that here is some pics of they way I was thinking. its an ATP version was going to put it right on rail.

 

So if I run the fuel outside first then back to the left as the picture, I pressume this wouldnt effect the pressure in the rail and would mantain it is full. then the fuel is through the FPR and back to the return to tank. I have tried to take pics of inside but not coming out well will have to try in daylight.

 

Thanks again.

 

I would rather use this one as I have no room in the bay the one you have in the first picture.

 

Chris

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah that's the Schimmel type regulator housing. The idea of those is you block the rail at the injector 6 end and the input and return are your two barbed ends on the FPR mounting.

 

 

 

I just remembered I did the stock FPR a far easier way and is how I would recommend you do it tbh. The FPR needs to be at no 6 end really to maintain the correct rail pressure.

 

[lilfuzzer 1]

Bugger!

 

Cheers Kev back to the drawing board I will wait till I sort the elbow on the short runner and sort the piping then as keep buying things fitting then it turns out to be slightly wrong.

 

NIce one cheers buddy have bookmarked that site and will look into the prices. Defo see your point in this one. Wish I asked before I bought this one :(

 

Hopefully my elbow will be done soon. so can try and get it finished. Been too long now!!!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, been there, done that :D That last pic was by far the tidiest, most reliable, most compact solution!

 

Are you going turbo then mate? Hard as nails speed to match the hard as nails banded steels ;)

[lilfuzzer 1]

Yeah mate thats the plan, collected parts for 2 years then rebuilt the engine and fitted it in april last year, had it running and drove it in anger (was amazing quick) but needed to sort extra cooling so short runner fitted just need to complete the plumbing in. Have a schimmel elbow that my mate is modding as it is slightly fouling on a water pipe or the slim line fans!!! If i went for a smaller fan when I bought them I would have been ok. Anyway enough of the woes. The build thread will be updated when I manage to complete it as dont want to tempt fate.

The wheels are defo staying ;) But doing a set for hopefully track days etc.

had another look at the stock adapter think I will go down route but want to get the elbow in position first. Next on the shopping list is a charge cooler!!!

 

Anyway I'll stop boring you mate and blocking the thread up with my stupid ramblings

 

thanks again buddy :)

[lilfuzzer 1]

Hi again people a new question!

 

I have to wire in the water pump for the charge cooler set up, question is where to tap into? Shall I just tap into the aux water pump wiring and use that?

 

Or would there be a better place to wire into.

 

I am intending to fit the pump just behind the bumper

 

cheers :)

 

This will be finished soon I hope :)

[VR6Joni 0]

Needs to go into an ignition supply, eg fuel pump etc. I've run a relay off ignition live to power the charge cooler pump, it needs to run permanently for best performance. I think the aux pump doesn't run permanently, but may be wrong!

[lilfuzzer 1]

ah right cheers joni will look at the wiring diagram and see if can sus it out

[Craig 0]

Collected my Rotrex kit the other day that was for sale on the VR6oc.

 

The JR cone filter looks a little small for potentially 300bp? would i be able to use the BMC filter in its place and what are the BMC bhp limits?

 

Also for anyone that has installed the rotrex kit before, mine has the 90 degree elbow from the charger inlet to the maf and it has 2 extra holes, one for the recirc valve entry point and another apparently to connect to the outlet on the rocker cover.

 

This has been butchered a bit though and just taped up and the chap before just had an open filter on his rocker cover. ill post some pics when i can but was wandering what other setup people had for their intakes for the rotrex kit?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

would i be able to use the BMC filter in its place and what are the BMC bhp limits?

 

Doesn't appear to be any. I ran 400hp on my VRT with a BMC no problem. BMC do sell some much larger CDAs for V8s though, if flow is a concern.

[VR6Joni 0]

Collected my Rotrex kit the other day that was for sale on the VR6oc.

 

The JR cone filter looks a little small for potentially 300bp? would i be able to use the BMC filter in its place and what are the BMC bhp limits?

 

Also for anyone that has installed the rotrex kit before, mine has the 90 degree elbow from the charger inlet to the maf and it has 2 extra holes, one for the recirc valve entry point and another apparently to connect to the outlet on the rocker cover.

 

This has been butchered a bit though and just taped up and the chap before just had an open filter on his rocker cover. ill post some pics when i can but was wandering what other setup people had for their intakes for the rotrex kit?

 

I've come to the conclusion you are better off piping the rocker cover breather to the charger inlet side!

If you get smooth running with the MAF on the charger elbow I would be surprised, mine wouldn't idle because of turbulence from the charger picked up by the MAF. 18" from charger to MAF is typically required for smooth running. And I think you will have problems locating the BMC!

[Craig 0]

Thanks Joni, i have decided to ditch the BMC as much as i loved it and bought a new fresh cone filter :) also as i am using the ccr racing metal hard pipe that goes straight from the rotrex outlet to the vr inlet i have no where else i can locate the maf other than before the charger inlet?

 

I have bought a breather filter for the rocker cover but i could remove the re-circ valve out and plumb this into the inlet if need be, i just wanted to try and keep the charger as fresh as possible and oil free?

 

Can you help with the below seeing as you've installed a rotrex?

 

Just finalising the last parts before I install my rotrex kit. Have a few questions tho as to the pipe work on the throttle inlet and multiple holes that will be left by deleting these and the pcv.

 

I'm planning on blanking off the PVC hose with a breather filter but what happens with the plug that connects into it and the holes that will be left open?

 

Also the charger set up has a metal hard pipe so what happens with the pipe marked by the arrow and the hole it will leave? Puzzles me why so many hoses need to be interlinked? But then again I'm no mechanic.

 

Also I was told the re circ valve I have needs a vacuum hose connecting to the top of it to enable it to function. any ideas how this can actually be done?

 

I sure my mechanic will be ok with it all but I just wanted to be as clued up as I can be when I pop up with all the kit.

 

And last q, I will need to have the maf extended so I can fit it in the wing, I presume some wire will just need to be soldered into place :)

 

Thanks for the help

 

Edited May 2, 2012 by Craig

[VR6Joni 0]

Only just noticed this, you can blank the small pvc pipe off in the red box, as your gonna be loosing the carbon capture can it feeds.

You will need to keep the pipe with the red arrow pointing to it, this feeds the ISV (Idle Stabilisation Valve) which controls idle rpm's, so you may have to get a Tee welded into your alloy pipe work (should already have one though).

As for the breather you could just pipe it down to around engine mounting height and stick the filter on, don't put the filter straight on the outlet as its dirty and lets smelly fumes into the cabin, I learnt this lesson the hard way. Keep the recirc valve, it prevent high pressures before the throttle which can blow hoses off, although I have heard stories of successful running without one, I don't think I'd even bother trying.

[Craig 0]

ill keep the recirc valve, have all the pipework etc for it, i Just wasn't sure what hose connects to the top of my re-circ valve to create the vacuum for it to work?

 

Also the rotrex hard pipe doesn't have a hole welded in so im not sure what to do with the isv feed pipe? i thougt this could be blanked off, if not i guess it cant just be left open with out a filter on it? wonder what the other guys used who used the rotrex install kit with the metal hardpipe?

 

im a bit clueless when it comes to all the extra hoses for the intake system and what they do/why they're needed?

[VR6Joni 0]

If you look at the vacuum hose for the brake servo, you will see a one way valve with 2 small take off's that are blanked off. This will be just below the main engine loom connector (from memory). You will need to connect the Re-circ valve vacuum feed to the take off on the one way valve closest to the engine. Be warned though, the blanking caps are tight and its easy to break the Tee off from the valve.

 

As for the isv feed, trust me on this, get a tee welded on to your alloy throttle pipe, might sound like a hassle but much simpler than any of the alternatives and fairly cheep as an alloy joiner will be about a tenner and for a fabricator to weld it on will only be 20 quid ish.

[Craig 0]

Right, if i must have this isv pipe ive bought another silicone t piece so im hoping to connect that on the end of metal intake pipe and TB inlet so i can then attatch the isv pipe to this...in theory :) does it need to be the same length, ie i am hoping to cut down the black pipe, then just attach this using the plastic joiner to this silicone t pieve i have ordered? fun times! nothings ever staright forward!

 

what does this isv pipe, help regulate revs??

 

Thanks for the help

[VR6Joni 0]

Yep, the isv does regulate the idle revs.

Stick a pic up of what you have, I'll be able to tell you if your missing anything.

Pipe lengths don't matter as long as they physically fit.

Edited May 15, 2012 by VR6Joni

[Craig 0]

no pics im afraid as im work at the mo but had a bit of a chore to get the bracket to fit and all the pulleys lined up!

 

Then the intake pipe was sitting at a slight angle. We cut down the isv pipe and connected this into the t-piece silicone hose that joins the metal boost pipe to the throttle body.

 

Still have to extend the maf and connect up the rrfpr.

 

With the rrfpr can i confirm the fuel goes in, fuel goes out into the fuel rail, we then us a plastic t-piece at the regulator end of the fuel rail and join the other outlet on the rrfpr to the pipe coming coming from the manifold which will give the boost pressure? leaving the fuel line regulator in place but also has the rrfpr splice into the manifold pressure via this t-piece?

 

Sorry i have no pics at the moment due to supposedly being at work! :)

 

also there was no room for my alloy t-piece so weve not connected the recirc valve back into the pipe intake work, ive jsut left it to vent to atmosphere. I know this is not ideal but is it really needed, i can always plumb it in at a later date if the noise is noticeable.

[VR6Joni 0]

I can't be 100% sure with your rrfpr, but most fuel regs come after the rail regulating fuel pressure between pump and reg, the output is just excess which goes to the tank return. Manifold vacuum links up the same as the stock regulator.

Is the stock rail regulator being removed or is it staying. rrfpr will come after if it is staying and both will still need manifold vacuum via a T.

 

You'll have big problems if the recirc vents to atmosphere as they vent on cruise with chargers so you'll get massive over fuelling and shifting up will probs through you through windscreen. Removing altogether is a preferred solution but you'll need very robust boost pipe work due to boost spikes as I mentioned earlier. In my opinion it much easier just to pursue piping up the recirc valve correctly.

[Craig 0]

Hmm, looking to try and get it finished later this eve but time is short, very doubtful will be able to make ccgb in the morning!

 

I have another hose that has a vent for the re-circ valve but i wasnt going to use it as its a bit worn, so I could use that and just make do until I get a new one. I was just wondering if it could just vent the excess boost to atmosphere?

 

Excuse my ignorance but why would this be an issue and jerk changing up gears? Just i like to understand the way it all works so I can gain a better understanding. I presume it's something to do with the maf and amount of fuel running lean or rich?

 

Appreciate the help :)

[VR6Joni 0]

Hi mate, up and running yet?

Not been able to get on here for a while, been on holiday :)

Your right, the MAF will measure the dumped air which will be translated into large amounts of fuel for the engine causing it to run/not run massively rich. And may even hit the MAF limit, which causes fuel to be stopped all together.

My concern was more to do with the recirc valve opening under cruise though, say 70 in 5th, my recirc valve is open at this point, which would mean over fueling, I'm not sure if it would run but can guarantee MPG would be pants. Lambda correction may help but I suspect it would hit its adjustment limit. I also find that the recirc valve is open under ldle which will also cause problems.

[Craig 0]

Yep all up and running, didn't want to do a duplicate post so I put the update in my members ride thread. Could dump it in here too?

 

It's running, sort off. Just been for a drive now and the idle is a bit jumpy, sometimes it sits perfect at circa 600-750revs when pulling up to a junction then some junctions it stalls :( I used the other pipe so I have the re-circ all piped in. It wouldn't idle without it!

 

I have disconnected the battery and drove about 40 minutes at the weekend to help the ecu adjust, thought I might have read somewhere that the ecu still learns for the next few drives etc, would be wishful thinking the idle sorts itself out?

 

Also if I boot it on full throttle I think it overloads the maf as it looses power suddenly and causes the engine to nearly jump out of the bay. Suspect it's hitting the 5v limit and shutting the injectors off. usually about 3.5/4k revs

 

Would there be Anyway around this other than a remap, maf clamp or smaller pulley?

 

When on part throttle and I slowly build up the revs it's ok but obviously thats not ideal if I can never use full throttle.

 

So I'm getting there, just trying not to have to fork out for a full remap just yet. Was hoping the rrfpr wold sort the fuelling but I never knew about the maf airflow issue until I read about it after a google search. it's all a learning process!!

[Rams 0]

Hi there

 

My inlet pipe for charger arrived today. Only took two and a half months!

 

It's a rubber / silicone inlet and appears to have an additional outlet which I'm confused by as I asked for an obd2 inlet pipe as it doesn't run an isv.

 

He says this rubber inlet is an upgrade but that doesn't sound right?

 

Have I been sent the wrong part as I would rather not blank it off....

 

Anyone with obd2 can you show me your inlet pipe if running a Rotrex charger?

 

There must be a difference on obd1 and 2 inlets as there are with standard setups. Does this look like an OBD1 inlet pipe to you?