Possible Turbo & Supercharged Golf coming out!!!!

[Spykee 0]

check this link guys!

 

possibility of a dual supercharged turbo'd Golf 1.4 FSI with 170bhp! 8)

 

[web]http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news/turbo ... 116390.php[/web]

 

Alex

[Jim 2]

Wow.. nice find! Would certainly be an interesting engine!

[Spykee 0]

cheers jim :D

 

kinda makes me feel all nostalgic reminding me of the revoloutionary 'G'

 

Alex

[mrbeige 0]

Interesting......when it goes wrong!

 

No seriously, I can see the idea is good, but don't see the point of it really. If you want good fuel consumption, buy a TDI!

[Spykee 0]

well this thing is supposed to do 46mpg with it mate so its not far of diesel with lots of guts too!

 

Alex

[Jim 2]

This seems to be for those who just can't bear the thought of owning a diesel. Because as we all know, modern diesels are so unrefined and impractical :|

 

Again, does sound like a bit of a novelty though.. 170BHP from a 1.3 engine just reminds me of the old Polo G40 - obviously not that kind of power but lots of grunt from a tiny engine capacity with the aid of a bit of FI :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I think it's a great idea. There simply isn't the need for huge gas guzzling engines anymore, not with current technology, and diesel is just dull, sorry Jim :lol: and MORE expensive than unleaded petrol. You can't put a label on it like "If you want economy, buy a diesel", not everyone wants waxy slimey sh1t on their shoes everytime they fill up.

 

The incentive for oil burning has gone. The cars cost more to buy than petrols and the fuel is more too, what's the point? You need to do well over 20K a year to make it worthwhile. As discussed in a different thread, Saab made a variable compression ratio 1.6 petrol engine several years ago that produced 260bhp and did well over 30mpg!!!

 

Diesel is a novelty whilst everyone still likes the punchy power band, but there's still a lot of life left in petrol yet and these companies that make inlet manifolds with chargers and coolers built in are paving the way for lots of little engined cars to have decent power and high mpg.

[Jim 2]

Here we go again ;)

 

Well unless you're extremely careless when you fill up, you don't get diesel all over your shoes!

 

I also find the argument that you need to do xxxx amount of miles per year to make money back a little confusing.. the economy is there to see right under your nose - Corrado cost about £50 to fill up and i'd get (on around town driving) about 260 miles per tank. My Golf costs me £44'ish to fill up and that lasts for about 400 miles around town. Any additional costs incurred when purchasing the car will be reimbursed come sale time as diesels hold their value better. So I just look on the extra cost of buying one as a deposit!

 

Don't get me wrong - i'm not defending diesel because I prefer it to petrol with regards performance or refinement. I'd much rather be driving a V6 4Motion or something! The only novelty is the MPG.. there is nothing else I particularly enjoy about the diesel. The powerband is frustrating and the engine is clattery!

[Big-ted 0]

What I don't get is that it diesels are more efficient, not due to anything inherent to the fuel, but because of how technologically advanced the engines are. A lot of money has been invested in their development due to heavy taxation of petrol. I would have thought that if one were to invest the same amount of money in a petrol engine, you would end up with something at least as efficient, and probably more powerful/refined due to the increase in volatillity of the fuel? :?:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL, you'll be suscribing to Caravan and towing magazine next Mr Diesel :wink:

 

OK, another misconception....diesels are more economical than petrol, if you drive like an old fart they are, but not when I drive them as hard as I would my VR they ain't. I've had Bora PD130 down to an average of 29mpg once, and my VR can beat that if driven sensibly. But yeah, if you drive them 'normally', 40ish mpg was achievable.

 

My argument is like, well, you pay £30K for a BMW 330d, or £26K for a 330i. So you're already 4K down. Then you go to the pumps and see that Diesel is more than unleaded. Down you go again. So unless you do a lot of miles, the 10mpg max difference takes ages to claw back.

 

But yes, a second hand diesel is a different matter....

[Jim 2]

As I say, I dont enjoy the (lack of) performance from the diesel at all.. i'm just on my 'sensible' car break at the moment :)

 

Your fuel consumption analogy is a little confusing.. go thrash your VR and go thrash a diesel and see what figures you come back with. Normal driving, more than 40MPG is achievable.. as I say, on my way to Norfolk last week I topped out at 56MPG on the flat, quiet country roads. I went there last Wednesday (doing a 300 mile round trip) and i'm still on the same tank of derv - now at about 450 miles with enough left to take me well over 500!

 

Anyway.. again.. please take this as friendly lighthearted banter.. i'm not looking for an argument or anything obviously. I just like contrasting opinions - its a bit of fun :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I would have thought that if one were to invest the same amount of money in a petrol engine, you would end up with something at least as efficient, and probably more powerful/refined due to the increase in volatillity of the fuel? :?:

 

Spot-on. The motoring pundits keep saying petrol is dead but it's bollox.

 

It's just that the sudden interest in diesel is masking how good petrol engines were and are, and how they are improving.

 

VW's 2.0FSI turbo is a prime example. It's so linear that you try and work out if it's turbo'd or not, develops 200 brake and torque and does over 35mpg on a run. So they're coming back at diesel big time and beating them at their own game. Diesels are becoming lower in Compression ratio (the main reason they're so torquey) in order cram more air in with bigger turbos, so they're becoming flatter off boost and BMW's 535d recorded a woeful 18mpg or was it less? on TG's test!

 

I think Diesel has blossomed quickly, and will wilt equally quickly......

[Spykee 0]

Kev,

 

i gotta agree with Jim!

 

if you thrashed the PD and then drove the VR sensibly then thats not comparing like with like! ;?

 

as jim says, thrash the VR and then see what you get.... i bet it would be close to single figures ;)

 

Alex

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Jim, if I thrash the VR, I get about 350 to a tank, if I take it easy I get about 450-500. How's that so wildly different to yours? OK I have a couple more gallons tank capacity but it's not like a massive difference in my eyes....

 

Anyway, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this! :lol:

 

This was before the charger by the way. I haven't done any comparisons yet and won't do until it's running right.

 

LHD-G60, no they're not like for like, one is an ancient 2.9 and the other a modern 1.9 diesel. I'm trying to say get over this idea that diesels are MASSIVELY more efficient than petrol, no matter how you drive them, cause they ain't.

[Jim 2]

Of course :)

 

I'm a smidge confused then.. I had the later, larger tank on my G60 and I never used to get anywhere NEAR that kind of economy.. if I got 350 odd miles on a long, sensible, steady run then i'd be happy. Weird...

 

But as you say, with the increased cost of diesel offset against the larger tank on the Corrado then that does probably balance out.

 

Time to f*ck off the diesel and get a VR then! :D

[Spykee 0]

Kev,

 

how big is your tank???

 

for such a hefty lump @ 2.9l thats damn good!!

 

am i likely to get similar economy from my G?

 

Alex

[chrishill 0]

i've no idea how some people manage 30+mpg in their VR's, mines constantly in the mid 20's even when i drive like a saint.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

15 Gallons mate.....500/15 is only 33.3 mpg. I got that when I was on holiday and did 75 - 80 mph everywhere. VRs can do that on a long run as they're tall geared.

 

The Bora I got down to 29mpg admittedley was brand new and I caned it!

 

The lowest I had the VR when caning it was 18mpg N/A. So I reckon the average difference between diesel and petrol is somewhere around the 10mpg mark.....which is a lot to some folk, but I don't consider it a huge difference personally.

 

chrishill, yours isn't running right then :lol:

[chrishill 0]

*grumble*

[Spykee 0]

i rekon kev's quoting those figures hes getting from idle :lol: ;)

 

i would think that your closer to the mark chrishill

 

Alex

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Chris have you worked it out properly or are just going by what the MFA says? Mid 20s isn't right. Late 20s is average, but some do more than 30.

[chrishill 0]

I worked it out properly when i first got the car, to be fair that time it came out at about 28mpg, but everytime I check setting 2 on the MFA before i reset it after filling up, its at about 25mpg. I'll have to work it out again, i think we've already established elsewhere theres summit up with my car somewhere along the lines.

[dr_mat 0]

Short journeys is the killer...

Diesels can be started from cold, do 4 miles and switch off again, every day, month after month, and still deliver 40+ mpg. Try that in ANY petrol engine, let alone a big 2.9 lump and you're rewarded with mid-teens mpg.

Long journeys and petrols can be allowed to get into their lean running reasonably economic band, and engine technology is moving on, so they're getting better. Diesel technology is aimed at getting more power out, while petrol technology is aimed at using less fuel ..

The thing that makes diesels so efficient is the whole compression-ignition thing. It's running well below stoichiometric all the time because there is no need to control pre-ignition, so it uses much less fuel.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Diesel CRs are dropping though, so the mechanical torque advantage of that is being replaced by more cylinder filling instead because CRs in the 20s with FI wasn't particularly clever in the beginning. Most TDIs are about 18:1 now, and I think BMW dropped the 535d to 15:1, and Audi's new S4 petrol is near 12:1....so the tables are turning. But you're right, diesel is more about high power and torque these days, rather than economy. Bimmer's 535d and V dub's V10 555lb/ft monster are not what you'd call economical!

[samm_cvr6 0]

Dr Mat, as usual you hit the nail on the head. I drive my VR 100 miles per day and always get 33mpg+=500miles per tank, but the forst 10 minutes or so I always change up gear really early, like 2k so as not to stress the engine, then by the time I hit the motorway, I let rip! and 33+mpg often includes taking it over a tonne LOL.

The VR does have tall gearing and you can leave it in 5th at 40 so long as you dont boot it below about 2k revs.

I think Jim has a good point tho, his golf is second hand so he hasn't really paid ouot the brand new premium, but there is plenty more to come from petrol technology, vvt and direct injection, think the new clio will have a 1.2T kicking out 100+bhp and 45mpg.

One good thing about these diesels say over a VR tho is they remap very well, which no one has pointed out, so all of a sudden a PD130 has 170-180bhp, where as a remapped VR ain't even worth it the gains are so low.