The Suspension Discussion Thread

[tony_ack 0]

I see what you're saying, and I would normally hold out, but it's going to be 1-2 years before I can splash out properly.

 

I've got a 288 brake setup to go on too, and the wheel alignment needs doing as it's had a new n/s ball joint and new o/s trackrod recently, so I may as well fit the springs at the same time as the brakes, then get it all aligned

Bump stops aren't really an issue - I changed the rears a couple of months ago anyway and they were pretty straight forward.

 

Luckily the suspension on all four wheels has been worked on in the last few months, so most stuff should come off easily. For everything else, there's Irwins and a big lump hammer

[Kevin Bacon 5]

For spring only upgrades, you ideally want the "OE sport" variety, which are usually ~ 15-20% stiffer than stock, and no one does any for the Corrado.

 

The H&Rs are considerably more than that, around 35-40% stiffer. You'll get a bouncy ride as the standard dampers are not valved to H&R springs. It's also standard practice to reduce the droop by fitting matching shortened dampers to lowering springs.

 

It may seem a lot of money for a proper kit, but the phrase "You get what you pay for" can't be any truer when it comes to suspension on the Corrado :) If you're modifying your car based solely on price, be prepared for dissapointment.

[tony_ack 0]

I appreciate the advice - it's a bit of a bummer that the OE shocks won't handle the springs (or more appropriately that there aren't any lowering springs to compliment the OE shocks). With the H&Rs only a 30mm drop, I thought there would have been a chance of being able to use standard height shocks without ruining the current handling or ruining the ride.

 

I wasn't really looking for a massive improvement in the handling in the short term - just a slightly lower stance, however as I said, I didn't want to make the handling or feel of the car worse, which it sounds like it may be.

 

I think the main thing was the shock (no pun intended) of the overall price of springs and shocks, especially given the KW v1s can be had for £550 for the galvanised versions. For the sake of £800 for a full set of springs and shocks, you may as well head for the V1s if on a budget - they seem to handle well from what I've read without killing the ride - or save that little bit more for the v3s if you're going all out.

 

And believe me - I never try to modify (or repair) using cheap rubbish - I prefer to go for tried, tested and approved quality parts and try to get them as cheap as possible - there is a difference! I was hoping the springs and OE shocks would be a good comprimise, but obviously not!

 

Is there anyone in Sheffield with KW V1s who would be willing to demonstrate what they're like?

[dukest 0]

I think the main thing was the shock (no pun intended) of the overall price of springs and shocks, especially given the KW v1s can be had for £550 for the galvanised versions. For the sake of £800 for a full set of springs and shocks, you may as well head for the V1s if on a budget - they seem to handle well from what I've read without killing the ride - or save that little bit more for the v3s if you're going all out.

just so you're not surprised, I dont think you've been able to get them for that price for at least 18 months, but you are still right, its the best part of £800 for Koni/H&R, although for that you are getting adjustable damping as well which you dont get with the V1s. The V2s that you do get it with are now the best part of £1k so for adjustable damping it is still a "cheaper than good coilovers" option if you are happy with the ride height. Personally I would prefer some more drop over the H&Rs as 30mm just isnt quite enough in terms of looks or poise imo, but my cat guard would point to the amount of times its needed rewelding after scraping over speedbumps and disagree with me..

[tony_ack 0]

http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/kw-variant-1-basic-coilover-suspension-kitbr-corrado-18-18-g60-20-28-vr6-29-vr6-0988-p-6939.html?zenid=db9b4ac0e22c48076f1babe8e0305490

 

http://www.kw-suspension.co.uk/coilover/products.php?vid=738

 

Only the galvanised versions though, not the Innox.

 

The stance in your pic looks spot on to be honest, what is the drop on that? The cat guard scraping on the spped bumps has me a little worried though!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The stance a lot of us aim for is 2 fingers between the arch and tyre. It seems to give the best all round handling / ride compromise.

 

As for the V1s, I found them to be very harsh on an otherwise standard Corrado VR6 I tried last year. I was surprised and dissapointed in equal measure. Being a KW user myself, I expected better for the money really, but we can't take one car as an overall picture, so I wouldn't mind trying another one some day.

 

And if you want to be a KW customer, trust me, you definitely want the inox!! Watch this thread later to find out why ;)

 

How about the Bilstein B8 and B12 kits? B12 comes in at £705 for a MK3 VR6 (they don't list a Corrado, but it's the same kit) - http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=105863

 

I'd take either the B8 or B12 kit over the Koni/H&R combo any day of the week :)

[dukest 0]

The stance in your pic looks spot on to be honest, what is the drop on that? The cat guard scraping on the spped bumps has me a little worried though!

ah sorry, read that too quick, didnt register you meant the basic ones. that is a fair difference then.

 

the H&Rs are meant to be something between 30-35mm afaik. its not an exact science though, I would say more like 30, just like the weitec springs say 40 and are more like 50.

 

this is a picture of mine in front of Fla's when he was on PI/Koni vs my H&R/Koni. somewhere in between would be nice for looks i think because if you go too low on 15s then it shows that they are tucked too far into the arches.

 

 

then, if you put 17s on with the H&Rs it just looks a little bit like the car is on tiptoes as the overall diameter is larger it raises the car up. I only had these TTs on for track days, but also had BBSRX11s in the past and felt that both looked a bit out of place at the height the car is.

 

 

its personal though, and you dont get any rubbing issues with the H&Rs and 17s which can often be a problem when you get lower.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's amazing how much lower the car sits on 15s with the same suspension height, despite there difference in tyre diamater being very small. Despite their faults, coilovers are useful for ride height trimming :)

[jimpy66 0]

It's amazing how much lower the car sits on 15s with the same suspension height, despite there difference in tyre diamater being very small. Despite their faults, coilovers are useful for ride height trimming :)

 

Don't understand- help me here- I thought that 15, 16, 17's with appropriate tyre size gave virtually identical overall diameter (a few mm)- so no difference in height?

[dukest 0]

Don't understand- help me here- I thought that 15, 16, 17's with appropriate tyre size gave virtually identical overall diameter (a few mm)- so no difference in height?

i must admit i thought that too but have been double checking recently and its about 10mm difference. it doesnt sound much but if you think my comparison photo above (mine on the right) makes it seem a little high, then even tbat little bit more, combined with the visual effect of larger wheels, does seem to make a big difference.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

How to replace a KW spring perch.

 

KW Replacement parts details - http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?52987-KW-Suspension-parts-contact-details-etc

 

 

I wanted to adjust the height of my V3s recently, but couldn't, because of this usual problem. Crud build ups jamming the perches!

 

 

All 4 of mine were seized, which was unusual as I've only had to replace one in the past. Anyway, you need to strip down the strut in order to cut off the seized perch. obviously :). Bear in mind if you can't wind the perch down to relieve the spring tension (why you're taking them off in the first place!), make sure you cover your face in case springs 'n' things twang off suddenly.

 

Once you have a naked strut, get your hacksaw out and carefully slice through the perch and *not* the threads! :lol:

Turn over and repeat, then pull the 2 halves off the strut.

 

 

Here's why they seize. Bits of grit and the heat from the friction of forcing the perch round deposits chunks of plastic into the threads, jamming the perch solid. It's easy to pick out of the threads though and I think that's probably better for strut preservation than metal perches siezing!

 

 

 

Run a wire brush through the threads and you have a beautifully clean strut again :)

 

These are 3.5 years old and have done nearly 60K. This is why you need inox in your life :) I reckon these V3s will be going strong way past 100K before needing a rebuild.

 

 

 

During assembly, I like to use a sliding mechanism grease on the perches to ease the friction when winding the coils up. It really helps.

 

 

In the perch threads, this stuff works really well.

 

 

When you do the fronts, strip the top mount bearings and inspect for wear. Saves you a few bob if you don't have to replace them! They come apart very easily.

 

 

Mine were mint so I repacked them with some more Silkolene synthetic grease. Could that be why these are lasting so well? VAG put a very small amount of naff looking grease in the new ones, but I like to get that out and put some proper stuff in :)

 

 

And finally, some duct tape is the best thing bar none for protecting the unused threads :)

 

 

So there you go. Don't panic if your coilovers won't turn. An hour and £15 a corner and you're good to go again!

Edited February 17, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[tony_ack 0]

i must admit i thought that too but have been double checking recently and its about 10mm difference. it doesnt sound much but if you think my comparison photo above (mine on the right) makes it seem a little high, then even tbat little bit more, combined with the visual effect of larger wheels, does seem to make a big difference.

 

I thought that for every inch you add in rim diameter, you add 1/2" to the ride height, assuming tyre width and profile are kept the same for the larger rim.

 

If you go for wider tyres with the larger rims, but keep the same profile, then the tyrewall size will actually increase as the profile is proportional to the width of the tyre - I guess this, coupled with the increase in rim size adds up.

[dukest 0]

I thought that for every inch you add in rim diameter, you add 1/2" to the ride height, assuming tyre width and profile are kept the same for the larger rim.

 

More or less, although the more you increase, the less the propoportion of the tyre will make up of the overall diameter of the wheel and tyre and therefore it will gradually be less and less than half an inch height increase for each diameter increase, but that wont apply to any great extent over 1 or 2 inches.

 

If you go for wider tyres with the larger rims, but keep the same profile, then the tyrewall size will actually increase as the profile is proportional to the width of the tyre - I guess this, coupled with the increase in rim size adds up.

 

Yes, so thats the reason for dropping down to 45 or 40 profile for 16 or 17in wheels respectively.

[Big Adam 0]

Anyone experianced the Apex RDX or weitec Gt coilovers? also, will mk3 golf coilovers fit the corrado, or just mk2?

and before someone says save up for kw's i cant afford to!

[snakeblueskin 0]

Hi my front spring has snapped on my standard vr6 im thinking about upgrading the shocks and springs but cant afford coilovers. I want to lower it a bit but not too much (maybe 35mm) and i dont want the ride to be too hard but also not too soft wich i think the standard setup is. Does anyone know a good set of shocks and springs for round about the £300 mark? I was thinking about just upgrading the front then the rear at a later date when i got some more cash any help would be great here as there is so much to choose from and dont want to spoil the handling and feel of my car cheers!!!

[dukest 0]

there is a substantial suspension thread you should look at but unfortunately there isnt much talk about shocks/springs these days as people normally only go with coilovers so they can set them up as they like just for cosmetic reasons. places like europerformance have a good range to choose from though so you're best of looking at the online retailers for choice but you wont get too much sophistication for that budget i'm afraid.

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

I'm coming up against the same issue at the moment.

 

My car had JOM budget coilovers fitted just prior to me buying it, they cost £150 on eBay and the fact they've fell to pieces already after 2000 miles shows you get what you pay for. Koni's on my last Corrado wern't bad but they go for around £700 nowadays.

 

I'm actually planning to go back to standard suspension but with a Neuspeed rear roll bar to try and eliminate the some of the softness of the standard suspension. Not bothered about ride height anymore, getting too old and i've got better things to spend the money on :)

[dukest 0]

isnt standard pretty pricey too though? (employee discounts aside!)

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Yup! But got all the original bits in a box :) Just need to invest in a set of front shocks and the small pieces for the rear shocks (£150!)

 

The springs are obsolete now and the rear shocks were pretty much brand new OEM items before the previous owner swapped them.

[boost monkey 0]

yeah the OEM VW hardware items will set you back the same as if not more than a set of coilovers these days. I have VR6 gas shocks all around on the plum, and including the dampers it must have cost about £400 perhaps?

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Yeah it's worth becoming friendly with a Parts person if you really want the standard setup. My car is currently doing 50 miles a day on a commute so I'm looking forward to the comfort factor.

 

That and the fact it will be a 100% (bar neupseed arb) standard VR6 Corrado which is rare nowadays :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

As the OP said and who I completely agree with, the standard setup is too soft. The rear arb doesn't change that. Especially not the Neuspeed with it's rose jointed linkages, which allows the rear beam to behave as stock over straight line bumps. Until you've experienced a standard car pitching and wallowing on a fast B road, you won't appreciate what I'm trying to warn you of.

 

Try not to get too wrapped up in your local roads. Most people make that mistake. Then they take the car out on a long trip or to a Nurburgring driving holiday and come a cropper with either ride height getting on the ferry or inadequate damping / spring rates on the track and local roads. You need to aim for a middle ground and accept a few compromises.

 

To do a VR6 any justice at all then you need to be looking at Bilstein B8 and B12 kits. They come in cheaper than comparable Coilovers and are fit and forget, which is what you want.

 

But it's your car, your money. Believe me when I say this, I *will* p1ss myself when you post up a thread saying how soft and uncontrolled the standard suspension is :D

[Conker 0]

I went through the same dilemma a few months ago.

 

I opted for standard ride height with standard springs on boge turbogas dampers, coupled with a full bush replacement by DG Autotech, including the R32 wishbones bushes , ARB bushes etc.

 

The setup focuses on comfort and practicality (speed bumps are no problem etc.) but it still corners very flat and controlled, although on a fast B-Road it can still wallow quite badly. Its never bottomed out though. I'm going to switch from Michellin Pilots to Uniroyal rainsports over the next few months which I hope will give it even more comfort (the michellins are very hard).

 

Although I've got no complaints, if I had to do it again I would have gone for KW V1's or V2's and then dialled in a comfort bias/ride height, but at the time money was a factor. V1's or V2's coupled with a softer tyre would probably be perfect for me.

[jamiehamy 0]

 

But it's your car, your money. Believe me when I say this, I *will* p1ss myself when you post up a thread saying how soft and uncontrolled the standard suspension is :D

 

 

Oh Kev, controversial! It is all so subjective of course, but surely you must agree standard is more than good enough unless you are actually racing or 'competing' against a fellow road user? Or have double the power output in which case yes, upgrading is sensible

 

 

That said, I've got Koni T/a's, does that eliminate me from proper standard suspension chat?

[groundforce 0]

Any thoughts on air ride?Lookswise I think they're cool and you can really slam your car,but handling???????