Oil Operating Temeperature on VR6

[StormVR6 0]

UPDATE:

 

I've just got off the phone to Vince at Stealth and apparently a part has to be custom built to accompany the Golf kit which is obviously not suitable on it's own. Seems a very plausible reason and hence the extra cash.

 

Strange how a part for the Corrado ends up being far more expensive than any other VW (extreme sarcasm intended).

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Told ya Vince is the man :lol:

 

Kev

[corradovr6sc 0]

Can't think what the other part is. Has anybody got a mocal oil cooler kit and fitted it themselves or knows the complete contents of the kit. Is it:

thermostatic sandwichplate

threaded extension

2 hoses and fittings

13 row oil cooler

mounting brackets

 

I have these parts and my cooler doesn't work (might not work for another reason) but have I got the correct parts? Am I missing anything?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

OK, I've just looked at my Stealth invoice and he charged me £189 for my 'VR6 Oil cooler kit' in March. I fitted mine myself and had all the parts you've listed and it works. I really don't know what's going on with the pricing or what bits you're supposed to get etc as he ordered it for me, as per StormVR6.

 

You have all the parts you need, so I can't understand why it's not working :?

 

Kev

[corradovr6sc 0]

I didn't have instructions with my kit but it seemed staight forwrd enough:

block, heat exchanger, sandwichplate, threaded extension, hoses, cooler.

Don't suppose it matters which hose goes into which side of the cooler as long as it completes a circuit. My cooler is facing downwards so the hose connections are at the bottom. Is this installed correctly?

[Joe M 0]

corradovr6sc, Is it possible the cooler is just full of air and needs bled in a similar fashion to a house radiator?

[corradovr6sc 0]

I haven't got a clue. how would I bleed it if I have an airlock? Take a hose off, run the engine then put it back on after making sure oil is passing through the cooler?

[Joe M 0]

I dont think that would bleed it unless the hoses were at the top, it would let you know if oil is passing through the cooler though.

Is there anything at the top of the cooler that would unscrew? If it is an airlock then you could either pour oil in from the top or loosen it with the engine running and the oil pressure would force the air out. I guess this would only happen when hot though. You could maybe loosen the cooler and try filling it with it tilted on its side or something though if theres nothing to loosen at the top?

Im not sure on any of this as its a mod ive yet to perform, its worth a go though.

[corradovr6sc 0]

The cooler has just the two opening for the hoses, nothing else. I want to make sure the cooler is not bocked. Maybe firstly remove and block a hose, start the engine and see if oil is going through the cooler then reattach the other hose loosely to bleed the air.

[Joe M 0]

Thats the thing, because the hoses are at the bottom I dont think it will bleed properly like that, the oil will just run along the bottom few rows and the top ones will remain full of air. :?

[corradovr6sc 0]

My cooler is only ziptied on so I can loosen it and turn it upright before bleeding. Before I installed the oil cooler I filled it with oil to prevent airlocks but it mustn't have worked. Thanks for your suggestions, I'll give it a go.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Mine is mounted with the hoses at the top but I don't think attaching them at the bottom makes much difference as when the stat opens, the oil is obviously then under pressure and it should also drive any air out too, which would just exit out of the crankcase breather.

 

It's got me baffled mate.

 

Kev

[Joe M 0]

Im getting more and more certain its because the pipes are at the bottom, think about it, stick a glass in a bucket of water upside down. It doesnt matter how hot the water is or what pressure its under, the air wont escape. A bit different I know but the same sort of principles apply.

I think the easiest way to sort it would be to get the engine up to temp then, providing theres enough slack, rotate the cooler so the outlet pipe is the highest point.

This is all providing there are no blockages of course and that the stat is opening properly.

[Ice White Socks 0]

Hello.

 

This question about correct oil temperatures comes up a lot. I know that I am going to get shot down in flames for this but I am sure I read in my Corrado manual that you need to pull over and let the engine cool if oil temperature reaches ... wait for it... 145 degrees :shock: :shock: (I hope I didn't dream it :))

 

Cheers

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Im getting more and more certain its because the pipes are at the bottom, think about it, stick a glass in a bucket of water upside down. It doesnt matter how hot the water is or what pressure its under, the air wont escape. A bit different I know but the same sort of principles apply.

I think the easiest way to sort it would be to get the engine up to temp then, providing theres enough slack, rotate the cooler so the outlet pipe is the highest point.

This is all providing there are no blockages of course and that the stat is opening properly.

 

Good theory, but if you apply pressurised air to the bottom of the glass, it will drive the air out, this is how submarines work. I have a hunch it *shouldn't* make a difference but it is certainly worth turning the cooler round to try.

 

Kev

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hello.

 

This question about correct oil temperatures comes up a lot. I know that I am going to get shot down in flames for this but I am sure I read in my Corrado manual that you need to pull over and let the engine cool if oil temperature reaches ... wait for it... 145 degrees :shock: :shock: (I hope I didn't dream it :))

 

Cheers

 

From the manual:

 

"The engine speed should be reduced if the oil temp rises to 145+ degrees C"

[StormVR6 0]

You are indeed right Ice White Socks the manual does state that, although I would be extremely worried if I witnessed such temps on my car!

I have had temps of 128C but I was doing in excess of 150mph.

The engine can no doubt take such temps but I would think for very short periods of time, and obviously the oil would lose its lubricating properties.

 

I think VW print such figures knowing that the C runs hot anyway and so not to have thousands of owners calling in with overheating probs. Imagine if they stated in the manual that optimal oil temp is 90-110C, C motorway drivers would be freaking out! :lol:

[corradovr6sc 0]

What is at risk if the oil temp rises over 145C? I wouldn't be too worried, I have seen 154C (hence fitting an oil cooler) and everything is still holding together. Can't fully synthetic oil handle these high temps without degrading?

[vr6storm 0]

Hello.

 

This question about correct oil temperatures comes up a lot. I know that I am going to get shot down in flames for this but I am sure I read in my Corrado manual that you need to pull over and let the engine cool if oil temperature reaches ... wait for it... 145 degrees :shock: :shock: (I hope I didn't dream it :))

 

Cheers

 

anyone noticed tho that although the manual states this temp reading.......your MFA will never show 145 degrees.........as it goes up in 2 degree increments starting from 50 degrees :wink:

[StormVR6 0]

I know Scott has said that oil doesn't break down 'til 150C+, this I'm not sure of but surely if the engine is running at such high temperatures for any more than a short period of time then the oils lubrication quality would depreciate leaving more chance of parts (pistons, valves etc) coming into direct contact with casings due to more friction, leading to overheating thus expansion.

 

I'm not sure, but holding a car at high speeds/revs for long periods is not something I would do. An engine likes to be hot but not cooking!

 

Mark

[Joe M 0]

Im getting more and more certain its because the pipes are at the bottom, think about it, stick a glass in a bucket of water upside down. It doesnt matter how hot the water is or what pressure its under, the air wont escape. A bit different I know but the same sort of principles apply.

I think the easiest way to sort it would be to get the engine up to temp then, providing theres enough slack, rotate the cooler so the outlet pipe is the highest point.

This is all providing there are no blockages of course and that the stat is opening properly.

 

Good theory, but if you apply pressurised air to the bottom of the glass, it will drive the air out, this is how submarines work. I have a hunch it *shouldn't* make a difference but it is certainly worth turning the cooler round to try.

 

Kev

 

I take it you mean water under pressure as the oil would be?

 

If you put the glass down deeper in the water the pressure increases, it doesnt force the air out but compresses it so the water appears to fill more of the glass. Once the glass is raised to the top of the water though it will be full of air again.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I know Scott has said that oil doesn't break down 'til 150C+, this I'm not sure of but surely if the engine is running at such high temperatures for any more than a short period of time then the oils lubrication quality would depreciate leaving more chance of parts (pistons, valves etc) coming into direct contact with casings due to more friction, leading to overheating thus expansion.

 

I'm not sure, but holding a car at high speeds/revs for long periods is not something I would do. An engine likes to be hot but not cooking!

 

Mark

 

It's all related to shearing at a molecular level. Polymer molecules (the additive that binds together the oil chemicals and provides elasticity) are long and thin and when exposed to excess pressure and heat, they shear apart. When this happens the oil gets very thin and loses it's lubricating and absorbtion (of blow by gases) qualities.

 

Mobil 1 15/50W claims to remain stable at up to 300 C, but for how long is not revealed. It is a very good oil though and can take the punishment of modern engines with ultra fine tolerances.

 

Redline oils can also take the punishment as it's basestocks are basically what is used to lubricate jet engines! But it's very expensive.

 

I personally like to see a maximum of 110 C under normal driving conditions and have taken the necessary steps to achieve that.

 

Kev

[corradovr6sc 0]

Good theory, but if you apply pressurised air to the bottom of the glass, it will drive the air out, this is how submarines work. I have a hunch it *shouldn't* make a difference but it is certainly worth turning the cooler round to try.

I have bled my oil cooler-turned it the right way up and released one of the hoses with the engine running and air hissed out with loads of oil. But it still doesn't get hot so it isn't working. Oil is present in both hoses so I reckon the cooler might be blocked/clogged up. Should it be possible to blow through the cooler? What is the best substance to flush the cooler out- radiator flush or something similar?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah you should be able to blow through it as easily as a normal water radiator.

 

Try flushing it out with petrol and then leave it for a day to dry out thoroughly.

 

Kev

[corozin 0]

Hello.

 

This question about correct oil temperatures comes up a lot. I know that I am going to get shot down in flames for this but I am sure I read in my Corrado manual that you need to pull over and let the engine cool if oil temperature reaches ... wait for it... 145 degrees :shock: :shock: (I hope I didn't dream it :))

 

That is a temperature I see from time to time when I take the car on trackdays :evil: and in all honesty I don't get too concerned until it goes over 140deg.

 

In those situations, pulling over is in my view not the best thing to do provided the car (a) has oil in it (b) Is running ok otherwise. What you should do is just slow the car right down and drive it in a high gear using low revs until the temp drops back. With proper airflow going through the car it should only take a minute or two to drop perhaps 20deg and this would take a lot longer if you pull the car up.

 

If you do stop though, do not switch the engine off to let it cool. Keep it running as that will circulate the oil around the engine and pop the bonnet to let as much heat out (and cool air in as possible). It will take at least 5 minutes to lose the 20deg mentioned above if you use this method.

 

BTW the highest tempereture I've seen in my car is 152deg (which was accidental) at a Trackday at RAF Bentwaters.

 

On a side issue, I'm sure you can get oil coolers from places like the Rally Design catalogue for something like £40 or less. I think even Demon Tweeks do them for less than the price that Stealth have quoted you guys.

 

HTH

John