VF-Eng Stage 2 Supercharger, ECU won't remap.

[antera309 0]

I've just fitted the VF-Engineering Stage 2 Supercharger kit to my Golf VR6 (2.8 OBD1) cabrio. The kit includes a Vortech V9-F charger pullied at 8PSi and redtop injectors.

 

Fitting went perfectly but Vince @ Stealth was unable to remap the ECU for the new setup (MAF disconnected).

 

The problems were:

- Wildly overfuelling at a given injector time (70% above another VR6 with the SAME INJECTORS and supercharger setup). Lambda reading way too low, even at part throttle.

- Fuelling deviating wildly on subsequent RR runs, even with the same map.

- Erratic idle. Idles at 1500RPM sometime, other times it stalls.

 

Vince did the best he could with the map, but it only made a (very lumpy) 240BHP (Target was 270-280).

 

On the road, the car will occasionally pull hard like it's supposed to, but then will suddenly stop accelerating so hard, almost like a misfire, except there is no stuttering.

 

Car was fine before fitment of supercharger kit and made 204BHP with just 268 cams, a BMC filter, Corrado TB & the remap. Car is back on standard cams now. Corrado TB remains.

 

Do any of you VR6 gurus know what could be causing these problems? Lambda sensor? Stuck injector?

 

Vince is lost on this one, which isn't a good start :(

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Doesn't sound good. What happens if you reconnect the MAF?

 

Not all engines like having the MAF pulled.

[antera309 0]

Good idea. I'll try reconnecting it now

[antera309 0]

Better. Much better. Idle is infinitely more stable, no stalling. Power is still down (as expected with a "safe" map) but delivery is much less lumpy. Gonna hook up the VAG-COM in a mo and take a look at that Lambda reading.

 

Vince was tutting about not seeing my type of ECU before and being more used to working with the 'rado AG ECU (in the MAF-less configuration) so we might be onto something here.

 

Are you a professional tuner, Kev? If not, then you should be.

 

BTW my brake servo has stopped working. The reason is pretty obvious, but is this something you'e heard of hapenning before?

[Guest]

antera309, were your idling problems happening when the engine was hot, or all the time?

I'm having a few idling problems with mine. Although, the car drives absolutely fine when on the throttle, when stuck in traffic and the temp rises, my idle races a bit...

Still trying to eliminate what it is.. Suppose i could try connecting the MAF up again, just to see if it cures it?

[antera309 0]

Reconnecting the MAF sorted the idle problems on mine (although exactly where that leaves me with the remap I'm not sure).

 

With mine, the idling problems were worse when cold.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Glad the MAF has kind of sorted it, or at least made an improvement.

 

I'm not a tuner, I just learn quickly and remember things! Cheers for the compliment though :-)

 

AFAIK, Vince has only mapped AF, AG, CP and OBD2 ver 3.8 ECUs so far. Is yours not one of these then? Is your car imported, South African maybe? I do know that SA ECUs have radically different timing and fuelling etc.

If yours is a proper UK car and engine, god knows mate!! If Vince is stumped, try IbiVR (tom) on the VR6OC....he's very clued up.

 

Dumping the MAF is not really the correct way to set these engines up, but until a better solution is found, it seems to work well on 95% of the cars he maps....but one trait of it is very over-rich cold running, but it should be stable when warm. OBD2 has mapped the best so far. More power and more consistent, so if you can upgrade your engine to OBD2, it'd be a good move.

[NormanCoal 0]

AFAIK, Vince has only mapped AF, AG, CP and OBD2 ver 3.8 ECUs so far. Is yours not one of these then?

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that your ECU is pre AF code, one of the very early coil packed versions, and this is a big part of your problems I suspect

[H8RRA 0]

 

OBD2 has mapped the best so far. More power and more consistent, so if you can upgrade your engine to OBD2, it'd be a good move.

 

 

what have i missed? not questioning you kev but mine runs fine at 330bhp on obd1 and i'm not aware of any obd 2 running any better or more powerful - i know my engine isn't std but thats nothing to do with the ecu and how it runs.... additionally noskys is the most reliable, longest running and possibly most thrashed charged vr on obd 1 with a dizzy and close to 200,000 miles....

 

we like our obd1 and i don't see the justification for obd2 unless you can persuade otherwise? if ecu's are to be converted, i'd be recommending a dta p8pro or the like. unless shown otherwise, i still don't see the point or expense of obd2 conversion

[antera309 0]

It's not from an imported car, but the engine was from an Automatic. Autos have a different ECU code (although still ending in AG) that Vince had not worked with before.

 

He's going to have another go at mapping it tomorrow, with the MAF connected this time. We'll see how we get on.

 

All I need now is an ISV. I knackered mine inspecting it for faults. Doh!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

what have i missed? not questioning you kev but mine runs fine at 330bhp on obd1 and i'm not aware of any obd 2 running any better or more powerful - i know my engine isn't std but thats nothing to do with the ecu and how it runs.... additionally noskys is the most reliable, longest running and possibly most thrashed charged vr on obd 1 with a dizzy and close to 200,000 miles....

 

we like our obd1 and i don't see the justification for obd2 unless you can persuade otherwise? if ecu's are to be converted, i'd be recommending a dta p8pro or the like. unless shown otherwise, i still don't see the point or expense of obd2 conversion

 

Here we go again :roll: You have no experience of OBD2 3.8 or DTA P8 Pro, so how are you qualified to state OBD2 is no better than OBD1? How do you know you wouldn't be getting 350hp with OBD2? And isn't mine just as powerful as yours with no intercooling and a larger pulley?

 

You have a rising rate fuel riser, which is not goverened by the ECU for starters, and secondly, it's the closed loop performance and idling that's suffering for this chap, and OBD2 is FAR better than OBD1 for that, FACT. Whether you agree with that or not or can justify it, frankly I don't care. It's on my car and I like it and it's a good base for my Turbo too, which will kick your 330hp into the middle of next week :lol:

 

Why don't you try the P8 if it's so good and report back to us?

I think the megasquirt is better than P8 anyway. At least there is massive base of people prepared to write new code for it for free and develop add ons, unlike DTA. And it's 1/4 of the price.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's not from an imported car, but the engine was from an Automatic. Autos have a different ECU code (although still ending in AG) that Vince had not worked with before.

 

He's going to have another go at mapping it tomorrow, with the MAF connected this time. We'll see how we get on.

 

All I need now is an ISV. I knackered mine inspecting it for faults. Doh!!

 

Ah that might be it, if it's an Auto ECU. Shouldn't really be any different in theory - unless there are some kick down enrichment changes? I think there are subsets of each ECU revision. AG can have a few variations IIRC and OBD2 is ver 3.8 here and up to 5.9 elsewhere, depending on location.....so unfortunately Vince is gradually having to work his way through all the different ECUs! He's only been mapping the charger kits since the beginning of the year and it's still not perfected yet. It can be better, but we still haven't found the ideal solution that's cheap and easy to implement.

[Joe M 0]

The problems were:

- Wildly overfuelling at a given injector time (70% above another VR6 with the SAME INJECTORS and supercharger setup). Lambda reading way too low, even at part throttle.

 

 

Do any of you VR6 gurus know what could be causing these problems? Stuck injector?

 

Sounds simple but couldnt you log the injector pulse times or whatever its called with vag com and compare with the other car? This would tell you if the ecu is holding the injector open too long or not.

[H8RRA 0]

bit of a rant from you there mind kev :? i can stick up for obd1, can't i?

 

i like your car as well but i haven't had any problems with obd1 and achieved good results - everyones entitled to an opinion.

 

my alternative opinion would be if an ecu cx was planned, an aftermarket ecu is a good alternative to obd2 or 1 - i'm as qualified as anyone, including you, to have an opinion - and i'm equally as qualified to say that obd1 produces fine results - as you are to say that obd2 does a good job.

 

pay your money, take your pick - its all about opinions and if everyone took the same route, there'd be no variety.

 

good luck with your turbo - hope you find a setup you are happy with, as i am. i stand by what i've done for funds invested and if you want to draw comparisons, which i don't, i think i've got a good return.

 

i'll check out the megasquirt as well - as you say, i haven't tried the P8PRO and my knowledge is only based on advice and recommendations of vince who i presume knows what he's talking about. i'd have to ask what made you decide to go obd2 as opposed to megasquirt, mind?

 

wish i had the disposable income that you enjoy - i still think you're mad but it must be fun - and then i'd happily report back to you on whatever aftermarket ecu i tried.

[Mave 0]

I tried to understand what's going on here, by reading I thought I could widen my knowledge...didn't work :lol:. You lot are bloody clever!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

bit of a rant from you there mind kev :? i can stick up for obd1, can't i?

 

Aye, sorry.... just seems everytime I mention OBD2 you or Nosky pop up and start questioning it's worth, but like you say, we all do the things we do for our own reasons.

 

Squirt v OBD2 - At the time, Squirt wasn't able to do both fuel and ignition mapping (it can now) and also, both Vince and Raj suggested OBD2 due to the issues I was having with stalling and exceeding the 5V MAF output with OBD1 etc. Raj had it all sitting there for £300ish so seemed like a good idea. It was only an expensive move because Vince installed it - the first he's done in a Corrado - so it was kind of made up as he went along. I don't have the luxury of a second car to do these things myself, otherwise I would.

 

I guess Vince likes OBD2 so much because he can monitor all the necessary sensors whilst live mapping. You can't on OBD1, so it's a lot more guesswork and trial and error for him.

 

Yep yours is a cracking result and you've got the torque I want, but in the end I decided to go turbo to get the engine I want. The whining of the charger is doing my head in aswell.....so wastegate chatter and a normal-ish sounding VR6 will be a welcome return :-)

[H8RRA 0]

all is good on the modifying front. theres a few well modified vr cars around now as the vr gets older. still gets good results over and above many newer cars. look forward to seeing a turbo'd vr

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

OBD1 rules !!!!! Turbos Suck !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.... :-P

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL!

 

Yours is going to be another good un James. Looking forward to your "feck me it's fast!!" thread 8)

[H8RRA 0]

.....i'm getting so peeeved that mine is still waiting to be painted - i need to come down and blow your car away kev, before you turbo it to 600 bhp and blast me into next week, as you so eloquently put it !!!!! ;)

 

we really need to get all of these motors on the road before the weather becomes too bad and have a communal blast.

 

I've learnt my lesson, mind - let a family member paint your car and you end up waiting bloody months to get it finished :(

[iow_corrado_g60 0]

i like all your cars and have very much enjoyed reading this thread!

 

some insane power from ur charged vr's id love it! and kev cant wait for your turbo!

 

p.s i think my charger is better than all urs

 

[Kevin Bacon 5]

H8RRA, you'd blow me away completely as our engines stand now 8) You have a good 40lb more torque than me at the moment, and it'll show on the road!

 

I won't be going 600hp with the turbo, the driveshafts won't last 5 minutes, if 3rd and 4th gears don't strip first! 1 bar initially, which is good for 400 crank power I'm told with the turbo I'm using. That should do for a while!

 

Like the meet up /cruise / thrash idea.... but mine isn't competetive at the moment as the map is so far off and I have no intercooling at the minute, so it'll be good for a couple of cold runs and then be pants!

 

Are you getting a full spray? Good luck with that, hope it turns out OK. Do you prefer the black car then as the blue car looks mint? Swap the mechanicals over and sell the black one?

 

iow_corrado_g60, looking forward to it to! This is what it will sound like as this car has exactly the same kit - http://www.spturbo.com/mainpages/bill%2 ... onster.avi

 

There's a good dyno clip on there, listen to the spool up and the mega noise!! Madness!

 

Worlds first sub 10 second FWD VW....also built by Bill Schimmel....again, same setup as mine but with a bigger turbo, much bigger :-)

 

http://www.spturbo.com/mainpages/bill%2 ... idecar.avi

 

Nice shiney blower you got there!

[antera309 0]

Thanks once again for all the advice. I'm over at Stealth now and Vince is having a go at mapping it with the MAF connected. I'll let you know how he gets on.

 

After reading most of the the big 103-page forced induction thread, I understand what the advantages of OBD2 are, per-bank injector control etc but switching to the OBD2 injection system (or dumping in an OBD2 engine) is a nasty wiring job on an OBD1 car. Were this not the case, I would have fitted an OBD2 engine right from the outset. If anyone has written up a guide to OBD2-into-OBD1 wiring though, I'd love to see it.

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Mine's the best, spent nowt on it and has 208,000miles and still goes well and still happy to go off the clock so there :onfire: :fist:

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thanks once again for all the advice. I'm over at Stealth now and Vince is having a go at mapping it with the MAF connected. I'll let you know how he gets on.

 

Good luck! I reckon it'll do better with the MAF. As annoying and unreliable as they are, it is responsible for quite a large area of the fuelling, especially noticable on part throttle and idle.

 

After reading most of the the big 103-page forced induction thread, I understand what the advantages of OBD2 are, per-bank injector control etc but switching to the OBD2 injection system (or dumping in an OBD2 engine) is a nasty wiring job on an OBD1 car. Were this not the case, I would have fitted an OBD2 engine right from the outset. If anyone has written up a guide to OBD2-into-OBD1 wiring though, I'd love to see it.

 

For sure, it is not a walk in the park and not essential either. The main reasons for me where to cure stalling (OBD2 never stalls) as it's a daily car and to reduce the cost of replacing the MAFs from £300 odd to £60.

The other benefits were a bonus.

 

To swap, you need to whip out the brake servo and master cylinder and that's the hardest part. As you've got a Golf already, the rest is easy. It's onlyt fitting to a corrado that is a pain as some of the grommets are in different places and different sizes, but 90% of the loom goes straight in.

 

Given the choice between standalone or OBD2, I'd take OBD2.